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Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
In this video I discuss why I recommend using your subwoofer to improve midbass response. Get your pitchforks ready!... I’m suggesting to run your sub higher than 30hz! :D
This isn’t truly a shocking revelation. Plenty of people already do what I suggest. It just goes against intuition and against some beliefs in the car audio community that a subwoofer should not play too high in frequency because it can cause the bass to be localized behind you.
The reason why is due to one MAJOR issue in car audio: the “Nearside Null”. This is the large dip in response of the driver’s side midbass speaker that occurs typically in the 70-90hz region. It is an acoustical null caused by the relationship of the listener’s location relative to the midbass location and generally caused by the width of the vehicle. If you play a track with bass guitar it’s very prevalent; you get a localization to the nearside midbass speaker when the midbass speaker is crossed lower than the frequency where the null occurs. This doesn't occur in every car; there are certainly exceptions to the more extreme car installs.
Generally speaking, the lower your crossover point between midbass and subwoofer, the more noticeable this occurrence is. Unfortunately, this isn’t something you can simply “EQ out”, either. Throwing +6dB at this null may only result in 1dB of actual gain; that means you’re wasting a LOT of power and risking damage to your speaker for no acoustical gain. Some of you may even think to yourselves “seems like you’re not getting much by crossing the midbass low. Maybe there’s not as much benefit as I thought in doing that”. That’s a logical assumption and a lot of times that’s actually true. Crossing the midbass too low can actually result in more “bass behind you”! And you can also take some of the strain off your midbass by crossing them at or above the null. Ironically, we in car audio tend to cross midbass low to get the “up front” bass we so much desire. BUT, IN FACT, the majority of the time you have bass that pulls to the rear is BECAUSE of the midbass nulls. I know that sounds counteractive. But it’s the truth. Standing waves are problematic and this is one symptom of them; whether in home or car audio.
Contrary to popular belief, raising the subwoofer crossover in to the region that this null occurs can actually HELP the sound to stay focused and achieve “up front” bass. If you can move your subwoofer to a location where it is null-free through a frequency above the Nearside Null then you can likely improve midbass without negatively impacting the “up front bass” effect that so many are after. And you can also take some of the strain off your midbass by crossing them at or above the null frequency. Not all have the luxury of space to move the subwoofer around much but experimentation is key here; you may be surprised at the difference subwoofer placement in the trunk can make.
And one important conclusion here is that placing the rear mounted subwoofer on the opposite side of the listening position often results in better response!
https://youtu.be/aIAV-jDafq0
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
I'm glad you posted this. I've thought for years that crossing midbass crazy low was kinda idiotic. One question I have though is...why did my Grand Cherokee and now my Ram both with door installs have a peak where you say there will normally be a null? In my Ram the door locations are low and forward butting up against the kick panel and in the Jeep they were somewhat middle of the door iirc. Or am I thinking about the phenomenon that happens when you get the lower midbass identical on the rta but then have to cut the left side afterwards to center it up by ear?
EDIT: yeah I know for a fact now I'm referring to the case where the ears and rta don't agree with each other. Just pulled a screenshot of the gs690's in the Jeep doors and the drivers side null is in the upper 70's.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
That was a fantastic video! Thanks so much Erin.
As a guy who is still pretty green in the serious SQ world, this kind of information is humongous. My truck install has all the typical issues you mentioned here and I've wondered what I could do to fix it or if it was something that I was doing wrong. So it is very reassuring to see people have the same issues and know that it is not a personal mistake, especially people with your experience level. You give several suggestions about combating the issues and back it up with visual proof.
Not to mention, dispelling the idea that just having kicks over door installs would magically solve the nulls, saves me a shit ton of wasted time and disappointment. Not saying they wouldn't be an improvement - just not a magic bullet.
10/10 video!
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
TIL the reason my old car had such good upfront bass is because I got lucky on woofer placement.
Thank you Erin
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blockrocker
As a guy who is still pretty green in the serious SQ world, this kind of information is humongous. My truck install has all the typical issues you mentioned here and I've wondered what I could do to fix it or if it was something that I was doing wrong. So it is very reassuring to see people have the same issues and know that it is not a personal mistake, especially people with your experience level.
Honestly, that's the best feedback I could hope for. I'm glad I was able to help you make sense of this stuff and maybe save you some headaches down the line.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Thanks for the video Erin. I noticed a similar issue in my car not too long about and moved my crossover from 60hz to 80hz and noticed a bit of improvment. Do you think moving it up to 90hz or so would help anymore or would it just be more trial and error since every car is different? I know I have a lot of other tuning to do still but your videos are really helping.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Would you push the crossover point all the way up to 100Hz(or higher) if the near side null is it 96Hz?
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
First, thank you for the very helpful video. i did a few quick adjustments on my lunch break and noticed a marked improvement in the midbass response.
Second, you mention how the near side null sounds like the sound is localized to the driver that has the null and also contributes to the subwoofer localizing to the rear instead of blending with the front. my question is do similar problems happen at higher frequencies? One thing I have noticed in my car is that sometimes I will hear some guitar notes and some hand drum notes that pull either straight back or to one of the rear corners even though the only driver in the rear is my sub. Is this effect somehow also phase related or are other there other potential things like reflections or? that could cause what would call a phantom speaker to momentarily grab your attention to an area where no physical driver is located?
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Erin-just noticed you said you suggest crossing the sub above 30hz. BLASPHEMY!:lmao:But seriously we've been around long enough to remember when people were crossing their 6.5" midbass at 40hz or thereabouts then freaking out when someone tried to get any real volume out of the system. One thing I've noticed over the years is people are tuning their systems to rock now. Probably a product of the younger generation of competition people coming about.
On the sub common sense tells me that sub choice is crucial to doing what you suggest. I can think of a lot of badass subs that are popular but struggle to play cleanly much above 60hz. It's really hard to have your cake and eat it too in that category. So a lot of people are most likely crossing midbass lower than they should because the sub can't play high enough to give a sufficient overlap and speaker limits. No different from crossing a 6.5" mid in doors to most tweeters where both speakers are playing to the ragged edge of their limits.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
soundstreamer
Thanks for the video Erin. I noticed a similar issue in my car not too long about and moved my crossover from 60hz to 80hz and noticed a bit of improvment. Do you think moving it up to 90hz or so would help anymore or would it just be more trial and error since every car is different? I know I have a lot of other tuning to do still but your videos are really helping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LumbermanSVO
Would you push the crossover point all the way up to 100Hz(or higher) if the near side null is it 96Hz?
Every car is going to require a bit of trial and error to get it the best it can be (note that I didn't say "perfect"). If you find something works well for you but doesn't make sense to you make sure to post it in your build log (or here is fine) and ask. A lot of this stuff is trial and error because not all cars and installs are the same. But there's a lot of similarities that can be applied between them.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fernpatch
First, thank you for the very helpful video. i did a few quick adjustments on my lunch break and noticed a marked improvement in the midbass response.
Second, you mention how the near side null sounds like the sound is localized to the driver that has the null and also contributes to the subwoofer localizing to the rear instead of blending with the front. my question is do similar problems happen at higher frequencies? One thing I have noticed in my car is that sometimes I will hear some guitar notes and some hand drum notes that pull either straight back or to one of the rear corners even though the only driver in the rear is my sub. Is this effect somehow also phase related or are other there other potential things like reflections or? that could cause what would call a phantom speaker to momentarily grab your attention to an area where no physical driver is located?
Absolutely. Fun trick: mute all speakers. Now, un-mute a single speaker (doesn't matter which one). Now play a sine sweep through that single speaker. Listen how the sound will move from one side of the car to the other. It's a trip. But it's acoustics. If it can happen with one tweeter playing, it can happen with any combination of speakers playing.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hillbilly SQ
On the sub common sense tells me that sub choice is crucial to doing what you suggest. I can think of a lot of badass subs that are popular but struggle to play cleanly much above 60hz. It's really hard to have your cake and eat it too in that category. So a lot of people are most likely crossing midbass lower than they should because the sub can't play high enough to give a sufficient overlap and speaker limits. No different from crossing a 6.5" mid in doors to most tweeters where both speakers are playing to the ragged edge of their limits.
I honestly don't really notice this being the case. Not unless they're really long throw with high/assymetric inductance curves. IMHO, people simply cross low because they *think* (understandably) that will make the bass come from up front. But that's why I made this video: to show that's not always true. :)
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Continuing to explore can only help ?
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
A lot of what Erin has said, I confirmed in my truck a few months ago. I didn't realize all of the stuff he said in the video, but it makes a lot of sense on the results I am seeing on my midbass speakers (Drop off at like 100hz) and subs. I have since switched sub setup, but this was my result with a single sub in a crew cab 2014 F150.
Note: This has a 80hz low pass on it to get an acoustical crossover of 100hz between subs and midbass.
I was trying various locations to see if they made a difference. By Ear, passenger side was the best and down firing seemed better but I wasn't 100% sure. So, I decided to take some measurements and find out.
Here are those measurements. If you have a single sub, definitely place it on the passenger side and down firing if you can! DO NOT PLACE IT ON THE DRIVERS SIDE!!!!!
This is all 6 different possibilities:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.f15...d009ef7f52.png
This is my before (center up firing) to my now (passenger side down firing). Gained 3db which is equivalent to doubling the power or adding a second speaker (not both)
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.f15...34e9c60ca7.png
This is passenger side up vs. down
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.f15...c5e678cfeb.png
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Very interesting. All of your downfiring have less output by about 3dB. Wouldn't have guessed it would make that much of a difference. Good info!
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Reverse that, up firing have about 3db less.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Is that a sealed box, jdunk? I'm assuming yes, but just want to clarify. Great info.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
It was. It was this one to be specific. To down fire it, I just placed some 2x4's under the edge. I didn't want to buy/build a new box if I didn't get good results. I was also looking to get an MTI box. and wanted to know how I should have them build it. Needless to say, I did a down fire design.
https://www.jlaudio.com/collections/...-systems-93302
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jdunk54nl
Reverse that, up firing have about 3db less.
Yep. Got my words crossed.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Believe it or not forward firing into the passenger seat of my single cab truck works better than downfiring behind the passenger seat. Sub was giving me fits so decided to do some experimenting. I did it by ear so can't say which way measured better but forward firing into the seat was enough of an audible difference that I will never downfire again in this truck.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Very cool video, Erin. And thanks for sharing your downfiring results jdunk (I will be trying that with my JL soon). I wonder if you are seeing that boost because you have effectively changed the length of the car (or the dimension it is measured in) as Erin referred to as the cause of the subwoofer null. My guess is that all the other positions you tried didn’t effectively change the “acoustic car length” as much as downfiring did?
I was wondering. Are these measured nulls (via RTA and mic) something that our ears/brains do NOT experience? As in, even though the dip is there in the acoustic response, our ears would tell us otherwise?
And related to this, is the pulling of the sound to the drivers side occurring because we have RTA’d the sides to match, and boosted the hell out of that speaker, causing us to hear it play much louder at say 80hz than the passenger side (when what we see on RTA is that they are level matched)? Just trying to make sure I understand what is occurring here...
Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erinh
Absolutely. Fun trick: mute all speakers. Now, un-mute a single speaker (doesn't matter which one). Now play a sine sweep through that single speaker. Listen how the sound will move from one side of the car to the other. It's a trip. But it's acoustics. If it can happen with one tweeter playing, it can happen with any combination of speakers playing.
normally it’s far worse with passenger side speakers as I believe the brain finds it easier to sort reflections from direct sound with the drivers side speakers, as the far side reflection is way longer than direct or near side reflections, whereas the passenger side speaker the difference between across the car to your ear is far closer to the length of direct or reflections from surfaces near the speaker, it’s amazing that people don’t think this happens
i explained it to someone the other day on a forum, I got told aiming doesn’t matter for mids... if you put more direct sound energy’s across a car the side window can then reflect more, careful aiming of speakers can very much effect speakers location to the ear
i think it’s all about balancing reflected sounds and reducing major reflections by using the pattern of off axis energy and balancing it to all surfaces it’s reflecting off of to enable the ear to locate the source of the sound more accurately, even if it’s not perfectly on the speakers location, as long as it can locate the source of sound at the majority of frequencies at a single point in space then your centre then becomes far more accurate and pin point as opposed to being diffused to some degree 👍🏼
it’s not so much that 10 degrees here or there will make a massive difference, as some people never move them far enough, generally I find there is a sweet spot that may be 10 degrees each way of up/down/left/right, outside this your gonna move it 15 degrees and never get a pinpoint stage due to energy bouncing everywhere, but if you find the sweet spot you certainly know about it, it’s the last 10 or 15 degrees when you put it in the sweet spot that makes the difference
by angling a speaker you move the radiation pattern by varying amounts at different frequencys, find the spot where the sound is most easily locate or at a single point while playing just that speaker, your centre and stage will thank you for it
i hope the above makes sense 👍🏼
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mauian
Very cool video, Erin. And thanks for sharing your downfiring results jdunk (I will be trying that with my JL soon). I wonder if you are seeing that boost because you have effectively changed the length of the car (or the dimension it is measured in) as Erin referred to as the cause of the subwoofer null. My guess is that all the other positions you tried didn’t effectively change the “acoustic car length” as much as downfiring did?
I was wondering. Are these measured nulls (via RTA and mic) something that our ears/brains do NOT experience? As in, even though the dip is there in the acoustic response, our ears would tell us otherwise?
And related to this, is the pulling of the sound to the drivers side occurring because we have RTA’d the sides to match, and boosted the hell out of that speaker, causing us to hear it play much louder at say 80hz than the passenger side (when what we see on RTA is that they are level matched)? Just trying to make sure I understand what is occurring here...
Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
the ear is very good at working out direct vs reflected sound if it’s far enough apart
i have experienced the very thing you are speaking of, you see a big peak on the rta, squash it and then it sounds flat, or have a dip and boost it, but it sounds awful and boomy, I believe it’s a scientific fact that the ear hears direct sound and can prioritise ‘listening’ to that and ignoring the reflections etc otherwise you’d kind of hear an echo almost, I am aware it’s not quite that simple, but then the brain and ears are very clever things, see my previous post...
for example in my car I get the same big peak at 150-300hz tapering off to 1khz, however it doesn’t sound muddy, or any kind of horrible like if the mids are placed at the wrong angle and position (getting the angles and position in the best possible place is the best way to start a system build, good locations make tuning far more simple!), the sound is then pulled here there and everywhere the edges of the stage are variable frequency dependant, ie hard left or right can move towards or away from the center of the car frequency dependant... when people say that some songs the stage is very wide past the mirrors, some songs are at the speakers or some are just inside the speakers it’s all about reflections and where the brain perceives the sound to locate, in a good system the sound located in a single spot (not nesc at the speaker, brains are funny like that) and that also makes the centre pinpoint accurate
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
When people cross a speaker crazy low I wonder how many do it for bragging rights and little more?
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Excellent info as usual Erin and suddenly I find the fact that I prefer 5 1/4" mids in a 2 way hp'ed at 100hz with a low pass of 80hz on my sub has been giving me another benefit I wasnt aware of (many do not believe I am running 5 1/4's and a judge at comp once swore I had larger midbass drivers hidden somewhere in my El Camino )
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mauian
And related to this, is the pulling of the sound to the drivers side occurring because we have RTA’d the sides to match, and boosted the hell out of that speaker, causing us to hear it play much louder at say 80hz than the passenger side (when what we see on RTA is that they are level matched)? Just trying to make sure I understand what is occurring here...
It depends on the resonance and what you’re listening to. The Q and frequency matter a lot. If you are listening to broadband music akin to pink noise then low Q resonances are more easily detectable. So, if you’re trying to tune with your ears using pink noise odds are you probably won’t notice sharp peaks/dips attributed to room modes. But if you’re listening to music with tones you will. I find this to be the case all the time and is why I use test tones for tuning below about 300/400hz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mauian
And related to this, is the pulling of the sound to the drivers side occurring because we have RTA’d the sides to match, and boosted the hell out of that speaker, causing us to hear it play much louder at say 80hz than the passenger side (when what we see on RTA is that they are level matched)? Just trying to make sure I understand what is occurring here...
Nope, the null was there in my measurements even without RTA. And even with EQ applied, I never apply it to that null; if I don’t cross the subwoofer high enough to help fill it in (or if I cross the midbass below that null) it is easily detectable with the right music.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erinh
It depends on the resonance and what you’re listening to. The Q and frequency matter a lot. If you are listening to broadband music akin to pink noise then low Q resonances are more easily detectable. So, if you’re trying to tune with your ears using pink noise odds are you probably won’t notice sharp peaks/dips attributed to room modes. But if you’re listening to music with tones you will. I find this to be the case all the time and is why I use test tones for tuning below about 300/400hz.
Nope, the null was there in my measurements even without RTA. And even with EQ applied, I never apply it to that null; if I don’t cross the subwoofer high enough to help fill it in (or if I cross the midbass below that null) it is easily detectable with the right music.
Whoah. Ok, I think a portion of my mind just blew. So the music is being pulled to the driver side (the speaker with the null) for frequencies within the null region because...? (Resonance?)
Also, do you have a link to some good test tones you use for below 300/400? (Are these sine waves?) I’d love to try that out.
Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Thanks for the video Erin...
what i'm wondering now is, if i should try that as my left midbass seem to have the nulls at a complete different location.
See the attached measurement of the drivers response without any xover or eq applied.
Right now i tend to set the highpass at around 60-65 Hz based on that measurement as it would complement a LR24db alignment when simulated in REW AutoEQ.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Very interesting stuff, thanks!!
By chance my sub is going on the passenger side and down firing in my Jeep!! Whoop, whoop! Now the question is, do I pretend I'm a genius by planning it that way, or just admit it was dumb luck?!?! Lol
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Question: has anybody tried using a different crossover point for the left and right midbass to subwoofer output? My DSP allows me to select different xover points for the left and right of my subwoofer... hence why I ask. Is this begging for some weird phase issues with the sub? lol
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
I think you'd just have less power between those two crossover points...
Assuming you mean, like, a DVC sub where you are feeding it power from 75hz and down on one VC and 90hz and down on the other VC.
Technically the sub would have slightly different T/S behavior between those points also, since you are only energizing half the windings... so Qes would go up, Qts would go up... those spec shifts might make it "less than ideal" in a vented box between 75hz and 90hz, but I'm not sure you'd really even notice. Maybe if you fed it test tones and impulse bursts you could tell... Give it a try! Why not?
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
DUDES - I have been having this EXACT issue in my 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4!!!!!! I have Alpine 6x9's in the doors bandpassed anywhere from 65-1200 up to 85-1200, and I was ALWAYS fighting having certain songs/bass land in my lap. For the life of me I was always trying tones/noise and trying to balance the left/right under 80hz. The sub was crossed at 67hz in general. I would find that level matching those lower ranges by RTA just didn't work, I would ALWAYS have certain notes in my lap, and to combat the issue I was having to cut that range on the left by 2-4 decibels to get any kind of center there. The truck has a full console and apparently it makes this issue worse.
Well, I changed the sub to 75hz, and moved the 6x9's to 100hz. Everything on a 24db slope. Well, holy shit, it cured almost of the problem. Totally not intuitive IMO, but it certainly made an instant difference. All of the bass is still upfront and even tighter than before. Impact is there, and midbass heavy tracks just dead on punch in the middle. Michael Jackson is one of my go to midbass tuning artists, and man, it is impressive. A little eq work may be in order to clean it up, but wow.
I love this place, I am a DIYAudio changeover, that forum went to shit.
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3 Attachment(s)
Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
After some more testing, I have come to two conclusions, I really had two things going on. First, changing the crossover point definitely helped the situation, although it wasn't ALL of it. The midbasses are bandpassed @100hz-1000hz/24 db. Sub picks up from 75hz down/24 db. On some music I still noticed a pull to the left, so I broke out the test tones and overlapped the midbass and sub. From 60hz-120hz I could play just the midbass with dead center imaging, no sub on. Then I would feed in the sub using my remote, as the sub came in, the image would move left, and reach peak loudness between 80-100hz with the image sitting on my right knee. Bingo. So, I moved my sub. It was behind my rear seat as the pic shows. I moved it and placed it under the seat on left, then center, then far right.
Far right is the best! I have not tested down firing yet. But with sub firing up, bass is dead center and clean and no image wandering. Now that brings the dilemma what to do. I like having my floor space in my super crew, but in actuality I rarely use it with seat folded up. I can probably get by with a single enclosure under the right side that is removable for those special cases when going camping or what not. I will probably just make a new down firing enclosure for my baby Dayton 6.5" subs that fits nicely there and go with it. The current enclosure is a bit small on port volume anyways and I can hear a little chuffing at low and loud levels. Downfiring and a larger port will most likely increase output as well. Then I will have to fill in the carpet I removed behind the rear seat LOL.
Attachment 12906 Attachment 12907 Attachment 12908
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
That is awesome! I found the same to be true in my regular cab installs. Although one truck had a center console with mucho space behind it between the seats, moving the sub all the way to the corner behind the passenger seat provided the most enjoyable listening. Turning the sub to fire into the corner provided the most output. Thought about experimenting with a pair of subs like that, left and right firing into each corner, but never had the chance to try it.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Would mids under the front seats make any difference vs. in the doors or kicks?
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
It'll just shift the frequencies where the peaks/dips occur. They're still going to be there.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
therapture
After some more testing, I have come to two conclusions, I really had two things going on. First, changing the crossover point definitely helped the situation, although it wasn't ALL of it. The midbasses are bandpassed @100hz-1000hz/24 db. Sub picks up from 75hz down/24 db. On some music I still noticed a pull to the left, so I broke out the test tones and overlapped the midbass and sub. From 60hz-120hz I could play just the midbass with dead center imaging, no sub on. Then I would feed in the sub using my remote, as the sub came in, the image would move left, and reach peak loudness between 80-100hz with the image sitting on my right knee. Bingo. So, I moved my sub. It was behind my rear seat as the pic shows. I moved it and placed it under the seat on left, then center, then far right.
Far right is the best! I have not tested down firing yet. But with sub firing up, bass is dead center and clean and no image wandering. Now that brings the dilemma what to do. I like having my floor space in my super crew, but in actuality I rarely use it with seat folded up. I can probably get by with a single enclosure under the right side that is removable for those special cases when going camping or what not. I will probably just make a new down firing enclosure for my baby Dayton 6.5" subs that fits nicely there and go with it. The current enclosure is a bit small on port volume anyways and I can hear a little chuffing at low and loud levels. Downfiring and a larger port will most likely increase output as well. Then I will have to fill in the carpet I removed behind the rear seat LOL.
Attachment 12906 Attachment 12907 Attachment 12908
It would seem like you could have done the same thing by virtually moving the sub by changing its delay (time alignment). I had a similar sub alignment problem with all pass filters causing some imaging weirdness when I really just needed a delay change.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ckirocz28
It would seem like you could have done the same thing by virtually moving the sub by changing its delay (time alignment). I had a similar sub alignment problem with all pass filters causing some imaging weirdness when I really just needed a delay change.
I tried delaying the sub all over the map. Never really cured the issue. Going too far outside the sweet spot just lost coherence with the midbass.
I even tried setting sub to one midbass or the other for best bass and then bringing the other mid ass back online.
I can distinctly move the center image between 60 and 100 hertz just by moving the sub left and right under the seat.
It is a very strange phenomenon, Never had this happen in my car builds.
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Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass
Quote:
Originally Posted by
therapture
I tried delaying the sub all over the map. Never really cured the issue. Going too far outside the sweet spot just lost coherence with the midbass.
I even tried setting sub to one midbass or the other for best bass and then bringing the other mid ass back online.
I can distinctly move the center image between 60 and 100 hertz just by moving the sub left and right under the seat.
It is a very strange phenomenon, Never had this happen in my car builds.
When I say change the delay, I mean by a lot, like 20 ms, I had to add just over 20 ms to my front stage speakers to get things right. But if you've found a solution you can live with, just keep doing that.
We definitely run across some weird issues in car audio.