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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rob feature
Maybe they are scared to kill Americans, but how to explain downing an airliner full of innocent passengers - among them plenty of our Canadian allies?
They just sent missiles at a superpower. Their air defenses were on a hair trigger. They were so worried about a (massive) counter-attack that they forgot to shut down commercial air traffic.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
SublimeZ
They just sent missiles at a superpower. Their air defenses were on a hair trigger. They were so worried about a (massive) counter-attack that they forgot to shut down commercial air traffic.
No doubt they were in freakout mode.
Cause and effect though. Actions have consequences. They did not start this.
This all started with Trump getting trigger happy. The end result, so far, is 181 innocent lives taken in addition to what's his name and crew.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rob feature
This all started with Trump getting trigger happy. The end result, so far, is 181 innocent lives taken in addition to what's his name and crew.
You are very shortsighted if you believe this
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SublimeZ
You are very shortsighted if you believe this
How did it happen then? That's how I remember the timeline.
Trump orders drone strike that kills Iranian general. Iran, on high alert because of this, 'accidentally' shoots down airliner. Without one, there isn't the other.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
rob feature
How did it happen then? That's how I remember the timeline.
Trump orders drone strike that kills Iranian general. Iran, on high alert because of this, 'accidentally' shoots down airliner. Without one, there isn't the other.
so our issues with Iran started with Trump killing a terrorist?
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
SublimeZ
so our issues with Iran started with Trump killing a terrorist?
No, issues with Iran go way back. What I'm saying is that Trump's decision to take that guy out triggered a chain of events that led to the deaths of everyone on that airliner. I am not saying it was an intended consequence, but that's what happened.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
So we should just allow him to attack our embassy? Allow him to plan attacks on others? You don't have to go back far for justification to take him out. He killed hundreds of Americans, thousands of Iraqis and even recently 1500 of his own countrymen. But Trump is bad :rolleyes:
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
SublimeZ
So we should just allow him to attack our embassy? Allow him to plan attacks on others? You don't have to go back far for justification to take him out. He killed hundreds of Americans, thousands of Iraqis and even recently 1500 of his own countrymen. But Trump is bad :rolleyes:
Again going on recollection, that was an unorganized mob type thing that happened at the embassy. Are you sure he did that?
As required by law, there must be a clear and present and imminent threat to carry out that sort of attack and so far nobody has come forth with evidence that it existed. I've seen nothing but deflection from the Trump admin...business as usual. Not defending what's his name, but when you attack another country, there are rules. For starters, Congress is generally involved. The way that Trump informed most of Congress about this was disgraceful. The fact that he sidestepped them is frightening.
And yes, Trump is bad. And now he has blood on him.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
That "unorganized mob" wrote Suliemani is our leader on the embassy wall. They carried the yellow flag of Iranian militias. Also, he didn't attack a country, he killed a UN designated terrorist on Iraqi soil. As I said before, you are short sighted.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SublimeZ
That "unorganized mob" wrote Suliemani is our leader on the embassy wall. They carried the yellow flag of Iranian militias. Also, he didn't attack a country, he killed a UN designated terrorist on Iraqi soil. As I said before, you are short sighted.
If someone killed General Mattis, or some other well-known American general, would you see it as an attack on your country? Would our enemies see him as a terrorist?
I may be short sighted, but I'm not wrong.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
rob feature
I may be short sighted, but I'm not wrong.
You are denouncing an American President for killing an Iranian terrorist. Think about that...
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SublimeZ
You are denouncing an American President for killing an Iranian terrorist. Think about that...
This here is short sighted
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
The news is currently showing that Iran has taken responsibility for the airplane.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
SublimeZ
You are denouncing an American President for killing an Iranian terrorist. Think about that...
And no I'm not. You totally made that up.
I'm noting an obvious chain of events.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
Holmz
The news is currently showing that Iran has taken responsibility for the airplane.
That's my news as well
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
rob feature
And no I'm not. You totally made that up.
I'm noting an obvious chain of events.
I didn't make up the Trump has blood on his hands.
As for your obvious chain of events, you see 6" of a 30' chain. You discount everything that happened before the strike. Your conclusions are made on incomplete data.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
SublimeZ
I didn't make up the Trump has blood on his hands.
As for your obvious chain of events, you see 6" of a 30' chain. You discount everything that happened before the strike. Your conclusions are made on incomplete data.
No, and I'll say it again. Trump has blood on his hands.
What happened prior to the strike is what everyone wants to know. What was the legal justification. This still has not been explained.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
rob feature
No doubt they were in freakout mode.
Cause and effect though. Actions have consequences. They did not start this.
This all started with Trump getting trigger happy. The end result, so far, is 181 innocent lives taken in addition to what's his name and crew.
Yeah, right... Trump just out of nowhere kills the Iranian general for absolutely no reason, huh? It's not like that terrorist general hasn't orchestrated the killing of Americans and was in the planning stages of killing more Americans before the day Trump ordered the strike on him, eh? The strike on that terrorist was NOT the "start" of this - he is labeled a "terrorist" because of all of the "terror" he has committed. Maybe we should just let terrorists roam around freely killing Americans because if we kill him, something bad might happen afterwards? Imagine how many innocent lives we spared by killing this terrorist.
But Trump started it... <sigh> And now it's Trumps fault that *Iran* shot then down a civilian airliner?!?! Trump derangement syndrome in full effect here. How about you put the blame on the people that *actually* did the deed and shot down that plan?
That's like blaming someones parents if their kid kills someone - because after all, if those parents didn't have the child, he could have never killed anyone in the first place. The parents must be the "cause" of that murder though, right?
Your logic is very flawed, my friend.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
jtrosky
Yeah, right... Trump just out of nowhere kills the Iranian general for absolutely no reason, huh? It's not like that terrorist general hasn't orchestrated the killing of Americans and was in the planning stages of killing more Americans before the day Trump ordered the strike on him, eh? The strike on that terrorist was NOT the "start" of this - he is labeled a "terrorist" because of all of the "terror" he has committed. Maybe we should just let terrorists roam around freely killing Americans because if we kill him, something bad might happen afterwards? Imagine how many innocent lives we spared by killing this terrorist.
But Trump started it... <sigh> And now it's Trumps fault that *Iran* shot then down a civilian airliner?!?! Trump derangement syndrome in full effect here. How about you put the blame on the people that *actually* did the deed and shot down that plan?
That's like blaming someones parents if their kid kills someone - because after all, if those parents didn't have the child, he could have never killed anyone in the first place. The parents must be the "cause" of that murder though, right?
Your logic is very flawed, my friend.
Once again, I'm noting a chain of events. Still waiting on evidence of imminent danger.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
rob feature
What happened prior to the strike is what everyone wants to know. What was the legal justification. This still has not been explained.
It's all been laid out in this thread, you just refuse to accept it. I have no frame of reference to even converse with you. I can't conceive hating someone so much that it clouds my reasoning. I'm out until there's at least a cogent argument.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
SublimeZ
It's all been laid out in this thread, you just refuse to accept it. I have no frame of reference to even converse with you. I can't conceive hating someone so much that it clouds my reasoning. I'm out until there's at least a cogent argument.
werd
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rob feature
Once again, I'm noting a chain of events.
So what was your point exactly? Are you trying to say that Trump was to "blame" for this "chain of events" or are you trying to say something else? Again, I noted a "chain of events" as well - parents have kid, kid later murders someone - does that mean that the parents are somehow to "blame" for the murder? Of course not - and you know it. Just because an action kicks off a "chain of events" does NOT mean that the initial action is to "blame" for every event that comes after it - that is just silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rob feature
Still waiting on evidence of imminent danger.
Let's be real here - there is no amount of "evidence" that would satisfy you and your TDS. The Trump administration has already explained why they did it. Do you want them to come to your house and show you the evidence first hand? Even then, you *still* wouldn't accept it. So just face it - you will NEVER accept *anything* that Trump does. TDS is real.
I've noticed that a lot of people love to talk without actually saying anything. The try to discuss a topic without actually agreeing *or* disagreeing with a decision that someone else made - this way they can't ever be "wrong" or have the discussion used against them in the future.
I saw a Tom Steyer interview this morning where he was asked whether or not he would have authorized the strike on that terrorist and he talked in circles without answering the question at all. Typical. Complain about something that was done but then neither agree or disagree with it when asked about it. :-)
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Correlation does not prove causality.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
rob feature
I doubt there will be any exposure of a sham, but I also do not expect the Senate majority to take Trump's impeachment seriously.
I would hope they don't take the impeachment serious. A precedent needs to be set that impeachment is not a political weapon. Personally I'm confused why it doesn't require a super majority to get out of the House. If a president is truly deserving of impeachment, then a 2/3rd majority would be easily accomplished and would ensure it is not a political attack.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Our gov't knew Bin Laden was planning an attack but Clinton decided not to take him out when they had the chance. Just think how things would be different now if Clinton would have done his sworn duty then. This jihadist movement and war on terror would not even exist. A 5th grader understands these things but the Trump Derangement Syndrome crowd and the sheep can't comprehend it. It's amazing how dumb people can be.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jtrosky
So what was your point exactly? Are you trying to say that Trump was to "blame" for this "chain of events" or are you trying to say something else?
I'm saying that his actions led to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jtrosky
Let's be real here - there is no amount of "evidence" that would satisfy you and your TDS. The Trump administration has already explained why they did it. Do you want them to come to your house and show you the evidence first hand? Even then, you *still* wouldn't accept it. So just face it - you will NEVER accept *anything* that Trump does. TDS is real.
TDS? Yeah, I've heard the explanation. But again he has not presented evidence of an imminent threat. Just saying it does not make it so. I'm not trying to say the guy he killed was a nice fella. Sounds like he was a real POS actually. But to assassinate foreign leadership, a president needs either evidence of an imminent threat or permission of Congress. Looks like he had neither
And I'll start giving Trump credit for the few good things he has done when his supporters acknowledge all the bad things he does.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
Holmz
Correlation does not prove causality.
facts
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jrwalte
I would hope they don't take the impeachment serious. A precedent needs to be set that impeachment is not a political weapon. Personally I'm confused why it doesn't require a super majority to get out of the House. If a president is truly deserving of impeachment, then a 2/3rd majority would be easily accomplished and would ensure it is not a political attack.
Well, we agree that impeachment should not be used as a political weapon. But Congress should also be able to approach the subject from an impartial perspective and that certainly isn't happening.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
jettyman
Our gov't knew Bin Laden was planning an attack but Clinton decided not to take him out when they had the chance. Just think how things would be different now if Clinton would have done his sworn duty then. This jihadist movement and war on terror would not even exist. A 5th grader understands these things but the Trump Derangement Syndrome crowd and the sheep can't comprehend it. It's amazing how dumb people can be.
Capturing Osama bin Laden had been an objective of the United States government since the presidency of Bill Clinton. Shortly after the September 11 attacks it was revealed that President Clinton had signed a directive authorizing the CIA (and specifically their elite Special Activities Division) to apprehend bin Laden and bring him to the United States to stand trial after the 1998 United States embassy bombings in Africa; if taking bin Laden alive was deemed impossible, then deadly force was authorized. On August 20, 1998, 66 cruise missiles launched by United States Navy ships in the Arabian Sea struck bin Laden's training camps near Khost in Afghanistan, missing him by a few hours. In 1999 the CIA, together with Pakistani military intelligence, had prepared a team of approximately 60 Pakistani commandos to infiltrate Afghanistan to capture or kill bin Laden, but the plan was aborted by the 1999 Pakistani coup d'état; in 2000, foreign operatives working on behalf of the CIA had fired a rocket-propelled grenade at a convoy of vehicles in which bin Laden was traveling through the mountains of Afghanistan, hitting one of the vehicles but not the one in which bin Laden was riding.
souce
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
rob feature
Well, we agree that impeachment should not be used as a political weapon. But Congress should also be able to approach the subject from an impartial perspective and that certainly isn't happening.
You're right. The democrats most certainly did not approach it impartially.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jrwalte
You're right. The democrats most certainly did not approach it impartially.
Nor have the Republicans. Do we agree there as well?
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
We had many opportunities to kill Bin Laden. We had real time surveillance on him for awhile. We even had our special ops forces watching him in one of his training compounds ready to strike but Clinton declined. It wasn't until later when Bin Laden was nearing final stages of 9/11 planning that he moved into the caves of Tora Bora that Clinton agreed to strike. We missed him. He could have been killed before quite easily. Maybe he was tipped off, who knows. When a country decides to have discussions and talks to target someone that takes times and word can get back to the target. Bottom line is you don't sit and wait for someone to attack you when you know they are planning that. Otherwise it could be too late.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jrwalte
You're right. The democrats most certainly did not approach it impartially.
https://youtu.be/Tfvle0OdlgM
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Well thank god Schumer and the democratic senators will be impartial. That's a relief
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
jettyman
Well thank god Schumer and the democratic senators will be impartial. That's a relief
Nowadays it's almost impossible to find someone impartial, but someone has to check the president's powers when he's out of line. It is clear that the party that our current president represents has no interest in ensuring that he operates within the law.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
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Originally Posted by
rob feature
I'm saying that his actions led to this.
No, actually, it was the actions of the terrorist that led to this. You have it backwards. You act like Trump "fired the first shot" here - this "battle" has been going on for years - and we (the US) just respond to what the terrorists do in order to stop them. It's absolutely amazing to me how some people act like the US is the "bad guy" here. ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. If Obama would have done the EXACT same thing, you would not be complaining. That is what they call TDS, my friend. You let your hatred for someone that you've never even met cloud your judgement so badly that you are complaining about taking out a terrorist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rob feature
TDS? Yeah, I've heard the explanation. But again he has not presented evidence of an imminent threat. Just saying it does not make it so. I'm not trying to say the guy he killed was a nice fella. Sounds like he was a real POS actually. But to assassinate foreign leadership, a president needs either evidence of an imminent threat or permission of Congress. Looks like he had neither
And I'll start giving Trump credit for the few good things he has done when his supporters acknowledge all the bad things he does.
Again, what would you "accept" as "evidence"? The US government is not going to let you in on all of the national security details that go into decisions like this. They can't even trust other government officials with this type of information, yet you want them to trust the public with this "evidence". Again, RIDICULOUS. No matter what evidence the Trump administration provided, you still wouldn't accept it.
Have fun with your TDS - I'm done replying to this silly threads that are just meant to bash the Trump administration and the USA. I cannot continue to participate in this garbage. I come here for car audio information, not Trump-bashing. :-) Enjoy.
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Re: "Iran Attacks US Bases: War Hawks Cheer/ Trump to Make Statement"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rob feature
Nowadays it's almost impossible to find someone impartial, but someone has to check the president's powers when he's out of line. It is clear that the party that our current president represents has no interest in ensuring that he operates within the law.
Thankfully we have the entire democratic congress, the justice dept and a powerful team of Trump hating lawyers that has made sure he has been operating within the law. No crimes from any of them.