Personal Offence...?

C

Captain Buff

New member
I am just reading about some young girl in America that had a short video of her using the ‘n’ word in a short derogatory sentence. It seems to have had some fairly giant ramifications for her...whether or not her life will continue is as it is; however I can only imagine the stigma that she will have to live with for quite a while.

Of note is that I have not a defended her actions. I will not apologise for what I haven’t said or any egregious statements that others <may> imbue I am alluding to.

My query is twofold:

1. I am from Australia...the ‘n’ word has become a much more serious issue than it once was. However it isn’t thought of as seriously as it is in America. I was recently on the PlayStation where two young guys (early teens, I am 40 FWIW) continually and in a derogatory manner used the ‘n’ word in describing their gameplay and insulting others (who weren't black...no one really is black around Australia as a general thing). I let them know that they were being little shits and that they needed to grow the f**k up. They ignored me; I remember being that age and knowing everything about the world I guess. However such extreme action as has been taken against this young girl in America due to saying a word does not exist here.

As such I wondered if someone could explain to me what I don’t understand...why has it become the way it is in America...? I do not see the reason why the likely ’brain fade’ and inept quip including the word by this young girl has managed to escalate to the level of completely blowing up her life. I don’t personally understand that...? I am naive of how Americans feel this concept and I am wondering if someone could respond on an intellectual level as to how/why it has become as it is.

I do not want to instigate hatred at me, Australia, Australians, white people, or any other form of insult. Big Al: kill this thread if it starts to head that way. That is not my intention. I am heading in another direction.

2. From another car audio site a private PM was leaked by a fairly mediocre excuse for a psychopath that detailed my personal religious proclivities (in a frequently offensive manner by said member). Following from that I was not ‘victimised’ as a result of it for the most part; however sadly most comments I made were followed by a remark alluding to my personal beliefs alienating me from the ability to have a logical intelligent opinion. Funny - no chance of trusting anything I say because I am Christian - oh well; pull out some American currency and see if it mentions somewhere on there who to trust. I believe the same statement is labelled ‘the American motto’ according to Wikipedia.

That was a purely logical however still a low blow...my apologies, I digress anyway.

Even from someone I hold in high regard on both this site and the other; I have been referred to as ‘god botherer’. That is water off a ducks back...I have received FAR worse insults through PM from the previous loose lipped member who revealed personal details and denigrated me publicly and privately.

I don’t care :shrug: I have had it all my life; and people will feel as they wish. They will also openly express that opinion to my face with almost blanket member support in derogatory terms...

So my question: what’s the difference? I get called everything from moronic to indoctrinated to a deluded asshole. I am most certainly none of the above. Yet if I was to actually state the ‘n’ word here I would be black listed. I may be black listed for this post as it is. If it became public I would be hunted around the globe or god knows what (no pun intended).

Can someone explain to me what the difference is?

I would really like to see some amenable and respectful discussion on this. For what it’s worth my intended point is NOT to try to engender any sympathy for myself or for religious people at all. My interest is to get some clarification of how the seriousness of the ‘n’ word usage has developed and what it really means in America.

Should this go off the rails then just kill it with my apologies mods. If it turns into any form of unnecessary hatred of myself, religion, my ‘naivety’, my honesty, my (manufactured) racism or other attacks...that will prove what may be the real reason and I will succinctly deliver the inexorable [FONT=&quot]coup de grâce.

Peace [/FONT]
 
America has been headed in a steady progressive cancel culture direction for the past 15 -20 years. The media is systemically trying to erase/cancel everything that is america. It is so much more than the N word. That is just a tiny part of what they are doing.
 
miniSQ said:
America has been headed in a steady progressive cancel culture direction for the past 15 -20 years. The media is systemically trying to erase/cancel everything that is america. It is so much more than the N word. That is just a tiny part of what they are doing.
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I was not completely aware of the meaning of 'cancel culture' so just googled that...appreciate the comment.

It looks as if it is generally accepted that the responsibility for what is happening at present is the media...specifically social media. I think a few would agree that there is a pandemic around the world at the moment; just ask the media...

As much as it mystifies me why the usage of one word carries such a '$5,000 reaction to a $5 problem'; I am also interested as to where it has come from and who is giving it continued support.

You mention that the media seem set on erasing or cancelling everything that is America. How are they doing this...and why?

I will give away my thoughts regarding the young girl who has had her life turned upside down due to a three second video. Bullshit. Has every word that everyone said in their lives been perfect? Maybe so and I was the only one that said things that I look back on and regret...
 
I would have thought there was a slight difference between walking up to a person and personally abusing them repeatedly to their face with the usage of the word; and saying that word once a three second video.
 
Here in America, people are tripping over each other to be the first to show offense on any particular topic. Oddly enough, most of the backlash comes from entitled white assholes who only show offense because it makes them feel empowered by being "woke". One example, a few years ago, a young girl performed a Japanese tea ceremony, complete with kimono and makeup, and her mom posted it on a blog.

View attachment 14968

Several Japanese ladies were appreciative of her efforts and complimented her.
...then one white chick posted this.

View attachment 14967

Calling a little girl racist is nothing to these people...but ironically, cancel culture is now eating their own. Ellen DeGeneres got a bunch of backlash for sitting next to George W Bush during a sporting event. I guess they were mad she didn't take the opportunity to stab him to death. Letitia Wright posted a video on Twitter made by some random guy who questioned the safety of the new Covid vaccine. During the video, he said something that offended the LGBTQ community, so she got so much hate in return, calling her trans-phobe and anti-vaxxer, that she had to shut down her Twitter account. Rosario Dawson, Gina Carano, and several others have been targeted also.

It's only going to get worse.
 
While I cannot comment on the young lady and what she said or why (none of us were there) I can say that the centuries of racism and slavery endured by many brown skinned people in this country has been ignored for so long, the inevitable harsh and concentrated reactions that have come to the surface only make sense.

It may not be right, but it is real. Since I am a minister, I can tell you my faith is definitely part of my identity: but I can speak one sentence and end it publicly (even if I don't do it in reality). I can medically and socially hide my gender. I can cosmetically hide my online and social image...but I cannot hide my racial makeup(nor should I or anyone). Since the hatred and malice directed toward a specific people for hundred of years has only been outlawed for a few decades, it is a continual problem.

For many who have little relationship or contact with persons of color (whose grandparents were enslaved and abused by community and government) the idea of bigotry and true racism seems like an outmoded concept. For those of another race, their daily experiences are considerably different (read: negatively impacted) on a daily basis. I can understand how you wouldn't imagine the name calling as impactful, living in a country with little slavery history (but oh did we treat those aboriginals badly!) and a majority caucasian populace. (I have a lot of family in Australia) It further confirms my point. Yo don't have people around you whom experience the ill treatment to tell you that it is bad.

Reactions like this are indicative of a social climate that minimized the social conscious mistreatment and misrepresentation for generations. My best advice? Love God and love people! The answer to the fear and hate is LOVE. When we treat our neighbor as our friend and brother/sister we all begin a journey toward unity and peace. Why are we so afraid to CHANGE how we treat each other and how we talk to each other to better love one another? I think you all are worth my time and my energy! May God bless these United States of America.
 
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So in your opinion it is acceptable to cancel someone when it turns out that 40 years ago in college he went to a costume party in black face?

And to say racism has been ignored is just wrong. I am almost 60 years old, and i have been hearing about race my entire life.
 
miniSQ said:
So in your opinion it is acceptable to cancel someone when it turns out that 40 years ago in college he went to a costume party in black face?

And to say racism has been ignored is just wrong. I am almost 60 years old, and i have been hearing about race my entire life.
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If you believe "cancelling" someone is what I just wrote then you are looking for a fight. I did not write ANYTHING about that. I was explaining part of the WHY, which is the original ask of the author of this forum post. If racism has not been ignored, then why does it persist? Why are there so many examples of pervasive racism in our land? What do you call that?

Not to be overly simplistic: If I have a weight problem (and i do!)but I do nothing to fix said problem, wouldn't my doctor say that I have ignored (Not dealt with and remedied) the problem? Wouldn't that be considered "ignoring?" (again, not arguing my example just making an small example...the example is again, overly simplistic) Talking is not changing anything. As the elders say, "Talk is cheap."

My point: While being a great land, we have a problem that has not been addressed sufficiently, it has often been ignored...ignored because it mostly doesn't affect us...for now.
 
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You're right, nothing screams "pervasive racism in our land" quite like a twice elected a black POTUS (with a name like Barack Hussein Obama, no less), who was not a popularly elected POTUS despite his being black, but was a popularly elected POTUS largely because he is black.


Fact is, pervasive racism is an illusion, a divisive hot-button issue continuously perpetuated by opportunistic media sensationalism and politicians pandering for resources and votes.


How is it that the label "racist" has become such a powerful condemnation of individuals and society, in a land of such "pervasive racism?" Those whom routinely label individuals and society as racist only do so because they know full well that said individuals and society are not at all substantially racist - that is why it works. The label "racist" has become perhaps the single most devastatingly effective cudgel to manipulate, silence and condemn decidedly non-racist individuals and society.


While the vast majority of individuals and society nowadays are not at all demonstrably racist, and neither routinely think nor act along racial lines, there appears to be no shortage of openly racist individuals aggressively pushing all manner of regressive racist nonsense such as "critical race theory," etc.
 
Grinder said:
You're right, nothing screams "pervasive racism in our land" quite like a twice elected a black POTUS (with a name like Barack Hussein Obama, no less), who was not a popularly elected POTUS despite his being black, but was a popularly elected POTUS largely because he is black.


Fact is, pervasive racism is an illusion, a divisive hot-button issue continuously perpetuated by opportunistic media sensationalism and politicians pandering for resources and votes.


How is it that the label "racist" has become such a powerful condemnation of individuals and society, in a land of such "pervasive racism?" Those whom routinely label individuals and society as racist only do so because they know full well that said individuals and society are not at all substantially racist - that is why it works. The label "racist" has become perhaps the single most devastatingly effective cudgel to manipulate, silence and condemn decidedly non-racist individuals and society.


While the vast majority of individuals and society nowadays are not at all demonstrably racist, and neither routinely think nor act along racial lines, there appears to be no shortage of openly racist individuals aggressively pushing all manner of regressive racist nonsense such as "critical race theory," etc.
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Ha Ha Ha! And i thought my example was overly simplistic. Electing a black president does not negate the daily life impacting slights of generations any more than calling women "Equal-citizens" raises their pay to that of the average man with equal qualifications. BTW, if you think Barack Obama was voted to be president primarily because he was black...read his bio of accomplishments before election and that of Ronald Reagan. I'm sorry my friend, Ronny would lose to Barack if you're talking qualifications. Columbia University and Harvard Law Graduate? A practicing constitutional and civil rights attorney? Professor at University of Chicago Law? Seven Years as a Senator?

How is that LARGELY BECAUSE He's BLACK? Wow...I don't think you fully considered what you wrote my friend. Few former presidents have his pedigree of both education and civil service. And since our current president has no civil service nor a degree beyond a bachelors from Wharton...Mr. Trump would be one of the least formally educated leaders of our nation's history.

Since i am a brown man, I find it hilarious anyone would begin to tell me what I experience. Thus my first statement rings true...many, many people have no idea because many many people lack close brown-skinned friendships...folks who will be real with them. Therefore, no possible understanding of the minority experience. What you call political, I call daily ritual. I can give four examples of this treatment in my life from this week...however, don't feel sorry for me for that is not my goal. I live and love my life and as i live in and love this great land. But she's got a sinful sickness called racism/prejudice that is both in our perceptions and programs.

Racism is not a hot-button topic, it is daily life for most minority populations. While you say you don't see it, or experience it in a widespread manner...how could you? If you're not standing in my or other's shoes with similar demographics you may never know. What you shared is a great description of what you think...be it excellent or otherwise, I'm not here to disagree with you. I am here to explain how marginalized generations feel (which is also a perspective and neither excellent or otherwise) that contributes to the discussion of "Why some of we Americans are treating those who use the N word with such disdain/strong/over the top treatment." It's exceptionally discouraging when brown people use that word themselves...ugh.
 
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Discrimination and Disparities | Thomas Sowell | POLITICS | Rubin Report

Dave Rubin of The Rubin Report talks to Dr. Thomas Sowell (Economist and Author) about his new book “Discrimination & Disparities.” They dive into Dr. Sowell’s Marxist past, free speech on college campuses, the role of government, minimum wage laws, his experience as a black conservative, debunking systemic racism, and more.

 
Grinder said:
And now the gender wage gap myth? Really?

https://thesuffolkjournal.com/28647/opinion/the-gender-wage-gap-is-a-myth/
Click to expand...

That's all you've got? You're wasting my time. There are plenty of articles with great quotes going the other direction...and has very little to do with the overarching point. I can pay anyone to research anything that supports my argument (since i have an earned doctorate) mere google research is not impressive. As a great many have quoted: "One with experience is not at the mercy of another with an argument." Again, it's not just conjecture...you're actually trying to argue experience with a man being paid to agree with your point? Well, at least my motivations and reasons are resolved in that I have nothing to gain.
 
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:wat:



Here are the facts:

The "Gender Pay Gap" Isn't What You Think It Is

What do you think of when you hear the phrase “gender pay gap”? Perhaps you think of a man and woman who work exactly the same job at exactly the same place, but he gets paid more than she does. This sort of discrimination has been illegal in the United States since the passage of the Equal Pay Act in 1963.

This methodology takes no account whatsoever of a whole host of factors that might explain this discrepancy.

But that is not what is generally meant by the phrase “gender wage gap.” Instead, the commonly reported figure—that a woman earns 80 cents for every dollar earned by a man—is derived by taking the total annual earnings of men in the American economy in a given year and dividing that by the number of male workers. This gives you the average annual earnings of an American man. Then you do the same thing but for women. The average annual women’s earnings come in at about 80 percent of the average annual man’s earnings. Presto, you have a gender wage gap.

That’s it, honestly. It isn’t much above back-of-a-cigarette-box stuff. This methodology takes no account whatsoever of a whole host of factors that might explain this discrepancy. It ignores the fact that according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), in 2017, men worked an average of 8.05 hours in an average day compared to 7.24 hours for women.

True, women are more likely to be raising children, taking care of elderly family members, or doing housework, leaving them with fewer hours in the day for paid employment. But this does not alter the essential fact: that people working fewer hours, on average, can be expected to earn lower incomes, on average.

Not Exactly Apples-to-Apples

And there are differences in the type of work men and women do, which bears on their earnings. BLS data shows that, in 2017, 94 percent of child day care services workers were female, the highest percentage of any category, and that the mean annual wage of childcare workers was $23,760. By contrast, just 2.9 percent of workers in logging were women, the lowest share of any category, and the mean annual wage here was $42,310.

They have simply assumed a cause and carried out a slightly grander version of the back-of-a-cigarette-box calculation to support it.
The Institute for Women’s Policy Research study fails to account for these differences. Indeed, its authors are airily dismissive of analysis that takes into account “occupational differences or so-called ‘women’s choices.’”

Its headline claim is that the 80 cents figure is wrong; in fact, women earn more like 49 cents for each dollar a man earns. The authors, Stephen J. Rose and Heidi I. Hartmann—listed in that order because that is how it is presented on the cover of their report, not because of sexism—arrive at this conclusion by taking a longitudinal dataset from 2001-2015 and measuring average annual earnings across the period for people who worked any amount during any of these years, and then comparing the overall averages for male and female workers, as well as for different subsets of men and women. Workers who were employed full-time for the entire 15-year period are lumped in with those who worked only part-time or occasionally.

Rather than starting with an observation (that 80-cent statistic) and examining possible causes, Hartmann and Rose have simply assumed a cause (rampant sexism) and carried out a slightly grander version of the back-of-a-cigarette-box calculation to support it. This isn’t how social science research should be done. It is exactly the wrong way round.

A New Study Out of Harvard

Remember, if we truly want to measure the impact of sexism on male and female relative earnings, we want to look at men and women doing exactly the same job at exactly the same place. Fortunately, a new study by Valentin Bolotnyy and Natalia Emanuel of Harvard University—again, listed in that order because that is how they are presented in their paper—does just this.

And yet, even here, Emanuel and Bolotnyy find that female train and bus operators earn less than their male counterparts.
They look at data from the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA). This is a union shop with uniform hourly wages where men and women adhere to the same rules and receive the same benefits. Workers are promoted on the basis of seniority rather than performance, and male and female workers of the same seniority have the same choices for scheduling, routes, vacation, and overtime. There is almost no scope here for a sexist boss to favor men over women.

And yet, even here, Emanuel and Bolotnyy find that female train and bus operators earn less than their male counterparts. From this observation, they go looking for possible causes, examining time cards and scheduling from 2011 to 2017 and factoring in sex, age, date of hire, tenure, and whether an employee was married or had dependents.

They find that male train and bus drivers worked about 83 percent more overtime than their female colleagues and were twice as likely to accept an overtime shift—which pays time-and-a-half—on short notice and that around twice as many women as men never took overtime. The male workers took 48 percent fewer unpaid hours off under the Family Medical Leave Act each year. Female workers were more likely to take less desirable routes if it meant working fewer nights, weekends, and holidays. Parenthood turns out to be an important factor. Fathers were more likely than childless men to want the extra cash from overtime, and mothers were more likely to want time off than childless women.

“The gap can be explained entirely by the fact that, while having the same choice sets in the workplace, women and men make different choices.”

In other words, the difference in male and female earnings at the MBTA was explained by those “so-called ‘women’s choices,’” which Hartmann and Rose so easily dismissed.

“The gap of $0.89 in our setting,” the authors concluded, “can be explained entirely by the fact that, while having the same choice sets in the workplace, women and men make different choices.”

The “gender wage gap” is as real as unicorns and has been killed more times than Michael Myers. Yet politicians feel the need to genuflect before this phantom figure. President Obama’s White House was obsessed with that ridiculous 80-cent number. Let us substitute the quest for phantoms with serious research into the causes of relative incomes.

https://fee.org/articles/harvard-st...ed-entirely-by-work-choices-of-men-and-women/
 
Remember...this is about racism.......................majoring on minors because you gave up on the earlier discourse?

BTW look up "Peer reviewed articles". the stated folks in your harvard study are students at the U, not scholars quite yet..nice try..next. I have a great load of student led research that could guide you to think Mars is closer to us than the moon (I joke) Students are amazing people, informing to the masse in scholasticism, they are not.
 
Troll? Didn't you respond to MY post? HA! Goodnight my friend, i seriously have nothing against you. I WILL look further into gender disparities, i think there's more i need to learn.
 
Well then. I believe there are two people here who have claimed a 'religious belief' of some nature. My apologies for the other guy; I'll deal with him shortly. I sure as hell am not perfect - I have said things on this very site that I have come back on and had to say 'my bad...I was having a bad day or something; but that was not what I meant...my apologies' - but I sure try to be respectful and sensible as much as possible. Faith typically has a humbling effect when it is genuine...for now that less than subtle riposte shall suffice.

BigAl205 said:
Here in America, people are tripping over each other to be the first to show offense on any particular topic. Oddly enough, most of the backlash comes from entitled white assholes who only show offense because it makes them feel empowered by being "woke".
It's only going to get worse.
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I found your example of the young girl with the tea party thing really proved your point. I don't have kids (that's a blessing to the world) but I can see that really screwing up a well meaning young girl. That sort of shit is low ass pariah gutter maggot filth.
Two things I would query though; firstly you mention that the perpetrators are mostly 'entitled white assholes'? Any time I have encountered individuals who called me out for something potentially offensive I said; I have put the subject or put them to bed pretty easily. I think that the entitlement you speak of is either
  • blatant arrogance ('I can count to one and stand in a dole line; so that means I am the shit and can call out whomever I wish') or what I feel is much more common,
  • a growing number of people with inferiority complex's that play out in a similar manner (call out offence at whatever etc.).
Bit of a lengthy discussion as to personally where I feel the second one comes from...but my point really is that I don't see these people as 'elite' at all. Perhaps I have misunderstood your wording...but physically, financially, social class etc.; I feel like all these people are nothing useful to anything in the first place and so create this pissweak facade of offence at something as a means of defining themselves as relevant.

I guess much the same as what you have said!! However I would have to add that at some point after BLM etc. started there were some black people getting up and saying that Church windows that depicted Jesus should be destroyed because this was some form of white person rubbish (forgive me as I cannot remember the exact reasoning that was put out). There is my ultimate point hidden in there; but for now I guess I don't think it is only white people making trouble from nothing.

Grinder said:
In short, it seems that an unprecedented combination of postmodernism, corporate media sensationalism, and social media echo chambers, have given rise to a virtue-signaling outrage-culture purity spiral of escalating moral one-upmanship, where the most extreme voices are rewarded, and nuance is punished relentlessly.

Here is a fascinating essay on the subject:
https://areomagazine.com/2018/12/18/postmodern-religion-and-the-faith-of-social-justice/
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I have not read the essay as I sort of get the gist. I agree with your statement...however my query remains (or maybe I am making it now!) of how the hell this 'moral one-upmanship' doesn't seem to be 'pissing off'? It is obviously a defeatist concept as eventually everyone will be offended at everything and we will all be forced to have lobotomy's and stare into space like zombies. Yet as per BigAl's comment 'it's only going to get worse'...how much worse can it get?

To me...well...I am a single, straight, middle aged I guess, I'm not ugly and I work out and keep physically in shape, I like boobs and beer, I have enough money to live a bit (and not need to work), I am degree qualified, Christian, and I am male. I seriously feel like in this 'take offence at everything' world I have a flashing target on my back for all these haters. It's a pile of bullshit snowballing out of control.

Interested in any thoughts/agreement/disagreement...particularly where the hell the end of it is going to come from...? We have a pretty poor democracy if every political and social opinion is based on the 0.01% of easily offendable troglodytes and the platform the suck hole media give them...


agm said:
’...then you are looking for a fight.’
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Right. I've had a shitful of listening to your bullshit Mr Minister. The only person looking for a fight here is you.

agm said:
For many who have little relationship or contact with persons of color (whose grandparents were enslaved and abused by community and government) the idea of bigotry and true racism seems like an outmoded concept. For those of another race, their daily experiences are considerably different (read: negatively impacted) on a daily basis. I can understand how you wouldn't imagine the name calling as impactful, living in a country with little slavery history (but oh did we treat those aboriginals badly!) and a majority caucasian populace. (I have a lot of family in Australia) It further confirms my point. Yo don't have people around you whom experience the ill treatment to tell you that it is bad.

Reactions like this are indicative of a social climate that minimized the social conscious mistreatment and misrepresentation for generations. My best advice? Love God and love people! The answer to the fear and hate is LOVE. When we treat our neighbor as our friend and brother/sister we all begin a journey toward unity and peace. Why are we so afraid to CHANGE how we treat each other and how we talk to each other to better love one another? I think you all are worth my time and my energy! May God bless these United States of America.
Click to expand...

Listen bud. You don't know how many people of different ethnicities I have met in my life. I didn't say bigotry and racism are 'outmoded concepts'; what the hell were you reading? 'We' didn't treat aboriginals in any manner, I am not taking responsibility for anything other than what I do and neither should anyone else! That is a fundamental tenet of the Bible after all...'free will'...you should know that Mr Minister. True though...I don't have people around me telling me how they feel picked on for being black. I seem to remember mentioning that I had experienced bigotry all my life due to my religious beliefs though...does that count?

I'm really starting to get pissed off so I will sign out with a beauty. God bless the US...but only the US. Everywhere else is heathen and backward. Screw them. They don't deserve God. You idiot.

You sound 100% like Sam Spade. Argue with everyone about everything but never actually pay attention to anything they said because whatever you want to say is so much more important.
 
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