Justin Zazzi
Wave Shepherd - aka Jazzi
Hah, you're welcome. Glad you could find it afterall.
Justin Zazzi's tuning companion for room eq wizard
- Thread starter Justin Zazzi
- Start date
First up, Great job on building this tool
Just a quick question
Am trying to tune my car audio system using REW
Am a bit stumped here with which house curve I should be matching for a LR4 crossover for my 3" mid with a 300 to 4000 hz bandpass
I have been using, Jazzis tuning companion for REW to generate a set of Half Whit housecurves with LR4 slopes (pic 1)
If I then import the generated house curve for the mid range driver into the REW EQ panel, I get the target graph below (pic 2)
It is should be a 24db 4th order slope, but it looks like its dropping at 17 db per octave??
If I turn off the housecurve and use the REW target line for a speaker driver 300-4000 hz with LR4 slope, I get the target graph below (pic 3)
It should be a 24db 4th order slope, but looks like its dropping 35db per octave
What am I doing wrong here?
Which target curve should I be using for a LR4 slope?
View attachment 15093View attachment 15095View attachment 15094
Just a quick question
Am trying to tune my car audio system using REW
Am a bit stumped here with which house curve I should be matching for a LR4 crossover for my 3" mid with a 300 to 4000 hz bandpass
I have been using, Jazzis tuning companion for REW to generate a set of Half Whit housecurves with LR4 slopes (pic 1)
If I then import the generated house curve for the mid range driver into the REW EQ panel, I get the target graph below (pic 2)
It is should be a 24db 4th order slope, but it looks like its dropping at 17 db per octave??
If I turn off the housecurve and use the REW target line for a speaker driver 300-4000 hz with LR4 slope, I get the target graph below (pic 3)
It should be a 24db 4th order slope, but looks like its dropping 35db per octave
What am I doing wrong here?
Which target curve should I be using for a LR4 slope?
View attachment 15093View attachment 15095View attachment 15094
Is it "none" or "full range". If you don't select full range it's doubling up the filters. Try it full range and the curve should match.
Justin Zazzi
Wave Shepherd - aka Jazzi
Thank you! I'm glad you like the tool.
Remember the curves my tool creates are the combination of the crossover and also the house curve. The curve you're expecting to see (24dB/octave) is not what you will end up with because it is being modified by the gentle downward slant of the "half of Whitledge" curve.
Yeah that doesn't look right. Maybe the house curve is not disabled like you think it is? It looks like the combination of my tool's target curve on top of the LR4 that REW is adding to it like Cathul and DaveG mention.
Remember the curves my tool creates are the combination of the crossover and also the house curve. The curve you're expecting to see (24dB/octave) is not what you will end up with because it is being modified by the gentle downward slant of the "half of Whitledge" curve.
Yeah that doesn't look right. Maybe the house curve is not disabled like you think it is? It looks like the combination of my tool's target curve on top of the LR4 that REW is adding to it like Cathul and DaveG mention.
It's none...
See the screenshots. First shot is with the overall curve and speaker settings.
Second shot is with the individual curve and speaker set to "none".
Both match, first one when set to the individual settings (70hp and 2300 lp LR24db) and 2nd one when set to none. I have raised the by 5db to make it more visible. If you lower the target level by that 5db the current and predicted curve perfectly match in each screenshot.
View attachment 15108
View attachment 15109
Thanks guys, I appreciate the quick response. Speaker type is set to none in REW (see pic 2 above). But as you point out, if a house curve is loaded in REW and a speaker type is also selected in REW, the target is a combination of both (as Justin points out above). I removed the housecurve in REW and the target curve was perfect.... such a simple mistake... Really appreciate your help guys... was driving me nuts 
Man this is such a great tool and when i finally understood the concept that "...shape is king..." - Justin Zazzi, it really made understanding that the electrical Xover type and slope is only the tools to get us to the needed actual Acoustical Xover shape. the Zazzi curve has been the hardest for me to come close too achieving, but it also sounds better to me than the "JBL/Andy" or ATF's house curve, I think the Zazzi curve is way under rated...
Okay enough nut hugging
lol
Okay enough nut hugging
lolJustin Zazzi
Wave Shepherd - aka Jazzi
I love you too!
Shane35Fowler
Noob
So when tuning in an open air environment Convertible, jeep, motorcycle etc are the LR4 alignment still ideal? Without all the reflections I ponder this.... Are there any other considerations I should be thinking about ?
And is it possible setting TA of the rear speakers in this instance to get a more complete sound at your ear? Obviously this isn't SQ related question per say.... But my overall listening enjoyment in a sort of SQL system where the rear speakers actually make a difference.
My Jeep had a passive 3 way setup with sub.... My motorcycle will have an active 3way plus center channel wideband..... Possibly a sub or PA midbass style
And is it possible setting TA of the rear speakers in this instance to get a more complete sound at your ear? Obviously this isn't SQ related question per say.... But my overall listening enjoyment in a sort of SQL system where the rear speakers actually make a difference.
My Jeep had a passive 3 way setup with sub.... My motorcycle will have an active 3way plus center channel wideband..... Possibly a sub or PA midbass style
Yes, they are still ideal for phase purposes.
The beautiful thing about lack of reflections (there are still A lot) is that you get less comb filtering.
Also, you should get the harley rockford setup...I heard that was tuned by someone really good and really into car audio....maybe even enough to make a helpful spreadsheet or sitting on a harley in their profile picture on this site
Open air will also have issues with cancellation when driving due to environment, so road noise will impact stuff more and drown things out. Ideal if you can compensate for this some way...like the rockford harley stuff does.
The beautiful thing about lack of reflections (there are still A lot) is that you get less comb filtering.
Also, you should get the harley rockford setup...I heard that was tuned by someone really good and really into car audio....maybe even enough to make a helpful spreadsheet or sitting on a harley in their profile picture on this site
Open air will also have issues with cancellation when driving due to environment, so road noise will impact stuff more and drown things out. Ideal if you can compensate for this some way...like the rockford harley stuff does.
Shane35Fowler
Noob
Yes, they are still ideal for phase purposes.
The beautiful thing about lack of reflections (there are still A lot) is that you get less comb filtering.
Also, you should get the harley rockford setup...I heard that was tuned by someone really good and really into car audio....maybe even enough to make a helpful spreadsheet or sitting on a harley in their profile picture on this site
Open air will also have issues with cancellation when driving due to environment, so road noise will impact stuff more and drown things out. Ideal if you can compensate for this some way...like the rockford harley stuff does.
Well its a F6B Goldwing I have the JBL DSP4086 for tuning and JBL BR-A 400.4(Brazilian) and Banda Black 400.4 I was running and old class AB JBL 504ez I had laying about and it sounded amazing without any tuning but I don't think it will stay cool enough in the saddlebag....
Using old Kappa 50.9 and 60.9 Components. Looking at using the CDT Unity widebands on the dash and some 3.5" in the pocket...
Justin Zazzi
Wave Shepherd - aka Jazzi
Tuning open air vehicles is a challenge. What sounds good engine-off to demo for friends will sound different from engine-on around town, and really different from driving at speed like on the highway or trail. It's a hard compromise to optimize all situations at the same time so I've seen people usually optimize more for one driving condition vs the others.
It's a bummer your bike isn't compatible with the system that jdunkl54 keeps hinting at because it's kinda awesome
It's a bummer your bike isn't compatible with the system that jdunkl54 keeps hinting at because it's kinda awesome
Shane35Fowler
Noob
Yea I'm sure it is.. ... Or why would you have worked on it!!! LoL. It honestly surprises me that with as many Goldwings are on the roads there isn't ANYTHING thats plug and play easy(Kustom Wingz/Evil Wingz does make some one off stuff tho)... But no harnesses, larger front speaker adapters, hell I can't even get the rear speaker harness without going through Mother Honda....I wrote several companies about working up a harness years ago for the DSR1 and wings and basically just got a canned response of thanks we will take that under advisement. Oh well... Ill say this about the HD guys...they are far more likely to cut and splice then most of the wingers.....
Feel free to message me any tips you think may be pertinent lol. I certainly appreciate the Spreadsheet and your other contributions!!
Feel free to message me any tips you think may be pertinent lol. I certainly appreciate the Spreadsheet and your other contributions!!
Hi All, ive been following this from over on DIYMA.
there are a few things i dont understand yet, but i'll start with this one:
When you use the tool to set your house curve and then create the driver curves, you enter in crossover points and slopes into the tool. then you take measurements in REW with all crossovers switched off, except for tweeter. then REW should tell you how to EQ it (i'm using minidsp, so maybe REW with give me biquads for Minidsp? perhaps thats another question) does the resulting EQing include the crossovers too? or do i do the parametric EQ stuff, then go into the crossover section in the DSP and switch on the filters/crossovers to match that set in Zazzis tool at the beginning?
Does that make sense?
Thanks
there are a few things i dont understand yet, but i'll start with this one:
When you use the tool to set your house curve and then create the driver curves, you enter in crossover points and slopes into the tool. then you take measurements in REW with all crossovers switched off, except for tweeter. then REW should tell you how to EQ it (i'm using minidsp, so maybe REW with give me biquads for Minidsp? perhaps thats another question) does the resulting EQing include the crossovers too? or do i do the parametric EQ stuff, then go into the crossover section in the DSP and switch on the filters/crossovers to match that set in Zazzis tool at the beginning?
Does that make sense?
Thanks
I don't think REW sets crossovers automatically for the minidsp, I could be wrong.
Ultimately the crossover is just another parametric EQ filter. Use it just like you do parametric eq filters to hit the acoustical target of each driver (what the RTA shows when measured at your listening position).
Normally my order is
1) Set time alignment data, if using a mono sub channel out of dsp or linked channels, adjust sub 6db down in dsp (that way when both your door woofers are playing, sub will match their level). If using seperate L and R sub channels, make sure to turn the left off when measuring right and right off when measuring left sub out.
2) Measure speakers raw response using moving mic method (MMM) and pink periodic noise without any EQ (Set appropriate safe crossovers so you don't blow smaller speakers). Include a sweep of each driver to get distortion profile.
3) Set crossovers to what they need to be to match acoustic response (this could be 6db, 12db, 18db, 24db, 36db slopes / octave and butterwoth, linkwitz, etc types). I try to really use this to match as much to my target curve as possible.
4) Finish matching to the target curve with parametric eq.
5) Measure again with MMM and pink periodic noise (including a sweep of each driver to measure distortion to compare to before eq, that way you can really tell if you boosted something that shouldn't be) and see how you did and adjust accordingly.
6) Then go into measuring pairs of speakers.
7) Go to band limited pink noise and listen to see if everything is centered, I suggest 10 minute max for this part. Your ears will start to not work properly after about that amount of time.
There is a good discussion on this stuff here: https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/showthread.php?5327-REW-and-Acoustic-Crossovers
and here: https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/sho...rossover-overlap&highlight=acoustic+crossover
Ultimately the crossover is just another parametric EQ filter. Use it just like you do parametric eq filters to hit the acoustical target of each driver (what the RTA shows when measured at your listening position).
Normally my order is
1) Set time alignment data, if using a mono sub channel out of dsp or linked channels, adjust sub 6db down in dsp (that way when both your door woofers are playing, sub will match their level). If using seperate L and R sub channels, make sure to turn the left off when measuring right and right off when measuring left sub out.
2) Measure speakers raw response using moving mic method (MMM) and pink periodic noise without any EQ (Set appropriate safe crossovers so you don't blow smaller speakers). Include a sweep of each driver to get distortion profile.
3) Set crossovers to what they need to be to match acoustic response (this could be 6db, 12db, 18db, 24db, 36db slopes / octave and butterwoth, linkwitz, etc types). I try to really use this to match as much to my target curve as possible.
4) Finish matching to the target curve with parametric eq.
5) Measure again with MMM and pink periodic noise (including a sweep of each driver to measure distortion to compare to before eq, that way you can really tell if you boosted something that shouldn't be) and see how you did and adjust accordingly.
6) Then go into measuring pairs of speakers.
7) Go to band limited pink noise and listen to see if everything is centered, I suggest 10 minute max for this part. Your ears will start to not work properly after about that amount of time.
There is a good discussion on this stuff here: https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/showthread.php?5327-REW-and-Acoustic-Crossovers
and here: https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/sho...rossover-overlap&highlight=acoustic+crossover
The ones you set in Justin's spreadsheet are the acoustical crossovers, the electrical settings in the DSP only matter in that you hit those acoustical.
Justin Zazzi
Wave Shepherd - aka Jazzi
Hi TheLexus, I assume you found an answer to your question? I see you removed your question here.