What would be your preferred method?
Joe Biden ?
- Thread starter Queef
- Start date
There is no perfect system. The electoral college is the most fair way of doing it. In theory it doesn't favor one over the other. That's another thing that makes this country and our system better than other countries. It's why we can have more diversity here than other countries. We can absorb that in our system and can allow more immigrants to become citizens. It's also why we are seeing the demise of Europe as we speak even though most don't realize it. Once the muslim population in the European countries is high enough to win the popular vote, no more European culture. This isn't happening by coincidence. The muslim immigrants know this. Their birth rates are at or just over 4 per person/woman whereas European birth rates have collapsed to an avg of 1.5 per woman/person. It takes just over 2 births per woman on avg to maintain your heritage. It's a simple matter of math. Europe is dying off. Germany for example will lose 1/4 of it's heritage in the next 25-30 yrs. What we know as Europe today will be muslim in the future if those countries don't change their immigration policies and fast. Scientist are ringing the alarm bell about this but so far Europe isn't listening. So those that think the electoral college is a bad thing should do some reading. Our founders knew we are a country of immigrants and planned accordingly. Like I said, those guys were really smart
I wouldn't be opposed to a similar system to Australia. In lieu of that I wouldn't be opposed to the electoral votes from each state split based on the vote from within the state so if a states voters vote 55/45 then the electoral votes from that state would be split 55/45. That would encourage republicans in states like California to vote and democrats in states like Alabama to vote that otherwise wouldn't.
Grinder
Active member
I hear that "the founding fathers were smart" statement all the time...
There are two problems with that:
1) ... (removed)
2) if I recall correctly, the postal service in the 1770's was not what it is today. Morse code was not even fielded until around the crimean war 150 years ago. And the internet was not invented by CERN (or Dan Quail)...
So back in the day, they strove for a solution to have the constituency represented in somewhat a timely manner given the speed of horses, and manual counting.
Whether or not there are more factors for equalling out states rights I would have to look into.
However it would still be possible to have preference voting that fed into an electoral college.
The big change is that 3rd party candidates can represent...
So a democrate could vote:
1: HRC
2: Gary Johnson
3: DJT
The republicans:
1: DJT
2: Gary Johnson
3: HRC
and the independent could vote:
1: Gary Johnson
2:
3:
... and sometimes the Gary Johnson's get through.
Grinder
Active member
Actually , jettyman , Donald Trump is going to take a break for the next four years to see if "Pelosi" retires !
He is worn out and upset after his first term.
Yes the founding fathers were smart. Smarter than you or me or anyone we know.
Nah, he's a fighter. The next shitshow will be when Ginsburg dies and gets replaced. Just waiting for that one.
The by hand counting w3rks well with hanging chads (perforated punched holes) in Florida , @ least for dubbya when lil brother was there ?
And what is the point of their (founding fathers FF) wisdom relative to the electoral college?
One could say that is was the first good attempt at democracy since Greek times.
Look around in the 1700s...
... we basically had Christendom in the whole of Europe and Russia, where the electoral college was specifically the Holy Roman Empire (and god) appointing kings and queens.
The USoA was a unique change compared to what was in Europe..., and France fell from Christendom a short while later.
Whether they (FF) chose the EC modelled upon a secular version of the HRE's Electoral bishops or not.... I need to study.
One could make case that a secular version of bishops in terms of a smart and learned EC representatives voting would be better than every moron voting for themselves... However there is no evidence of that.
We get movie stars and drama queens or narcissists through primaries and elections, and the EC pretty much symbolically echos the popular vote.
In any case you seem to making an arguement that the founding fathers general intelligence means that we cannot do better than they did, and specifically in terms of the electoral college?
For all they did in a short time, it is breathtaking, but talking just one of the things, such as the electoral college, over a longer time... should produce a more optimal outcome.
(One can also easily make the case the most of the house and senate are neither as well read, nor as well reasoned, as the FF...)
Holmz no disrespect but aren't you from somewhere other than the US? If so it always amazes me that foreigners try to dissect or contradict our founding fathers, constitution etc. The fact is they created the most fair, most prosperous system of governance in the history of humanity. The liberals think they can change these things for the "better". They have been wrong for 300 years. The US constitution is the greatest document ever created. It can't be changed.
They call them "swing states" because they are so closely divided among the voters that they could swing to Democrat OR Republican. The other states absolutely do matter, but are basically guaranteed to vote for one party. For example, Alabama will absolutely vote Republican while New York will vote Democrat. The candidates will focus on the states that they MAY win rather than wasting time "preaching to the choir" in states that they absolutely WILL win, or wasting time talking to their enemies in states that they absolutely WILL NOT win. All the states count for sure, not just the swing states.
The swing states determine the election.
Well I did a post a few weeks ago complaining that the flag shows where one is posting from, and not derived from the country in the profile.
It almost sounds like you are suggesting that one cannot have a critique on the US unless one is from the US?
(In any case my passport is in fact a US passport, and I seem to be able to recommend good SoCal coffee places for DavidRam.)
And/or a secondary label of "liberal" being suggested?
The constitution can be changed, which is why we have the first amendment, then the second amendment... etc.
What made the US noteworthy 240+ years ago is less noteworthy compared to today's list of counties. Spefically (US, then followed by France, then... etc.)
The actual voters in the days of old were primarily the gentrified class. It is just like US started out with even gentrified women being able to vote. And I believe that there were also amendments or amendments of laws.
Rather who and where ideas come from... and non US persons commenting... maybe we should talk about term limits and PAC groups influencing laws?
Keep thinking that way ca.
Will do.
I don't really have a problem with term limits. Let's start with the supreme court for example. I mean surely everyone agrees no one 86 yrs old should still be on the supreme court right? And I have no problem with anyone 75 yrs old being booted out of congress regardless of party. Just listen to those 75 yr olds in the hearings. It's disgraceful. And Mueller for god's sake couldn't even finish a thought and he wanted to be FBI director. Do you notice a trend here? Trump was elected because people are tired of the swamp bullshit that's existed in our political system for decades now.
And no you cannot change the constitution without destroying it and wiping away our rights as citizens. It's the eternal struggle in this country. Only the "progressive liberals" want to change it. They want to fundamentally change this country to something completely different than what is has been for 300 years. All for the sake of power. Most logical people from this country understand this. It's the reason that Trump won in spite of all his foolish tweets and speeches. Because he is preserving the constitution.
BTW, what country are you a citizen of? I'm just curious