I have a question....figured I'd toss it in this wing of the forum

B

BenevolentDictator

Noob
In SQ builds that I've been obsessing over in the last few months I've noticed that there are people with enclosures where the inside is lined with deadener....Can someone give me some insight as to why that is and also the what for? I know the chase for great reproduction is one rife with some baseball level superstitions and trickery but this one stuck out to me.:nerd::nerd:
 
Well I’ll start you out...are you referring to CLD tiles (like Dynamat)?
One reason guys would use that on the sides of an enclosure is to make it more rigid (teehee). Pretty simple math/physics to understand: if the walls of the enclosure flex then that will result in lost acoustic energy and so the output of the driver/enclosure will be decreased.
Hope that helps ��
 
I can see CLD being used in fiberglass enclosures to lower the resonant frequency, but not sure it would help on wooded boxes.
 
Captain Buff said:
Well I’ll start you out...are you referring to CLD tiles (like Dynamat)?
One reason guys would use that on the sides of an enclosure is to make it more rigid (teehee). Pretty simple math/physics to understand: if the walls of the enclosure flex then that will result in lost acoustic energy and so the output of the driver/enclosure will be decreased.
Hope that helps ��
Click to expand...

That does help Cap....thanks. Also to you Al thank you...that makes sense as well. I guess most of what I've been seeing has probably been fiberglass enclosures without me taking note of that. I may go ahead and do it with this minor build I'm trying to get together for a Civic in a few weeks. I'll make sure to post it in the build log...you all will probably enjoy a good laugh.
 
BenevolentDictator said:
That does help Cap....thanks. Also to you Al thank you...that makes sense as well. I guess most of what I've been seeing has probably been fiberglass enclosures without me taking note of that. I may go ahead and do it with this minor build I'm trying to get together for a Civic in a few weeks. I'll make sure to post it in the build log...you all will probably enjoy a good laugh.
Click to expand...

No such thing as a ‘build log that is just a laugh’ mate...always can be something that you do a certain way that gives another guy a ‘light bulb moment’
dd2c665d-5a34-4f35-86d1-45f4be25abb0
:thumbup:

Just FWIW regarding the stiffness (teehee) of subwoofer enclosure walls; there is a reputable installer in Oz that recommended (or at least he used to) using 50-55mm (~2 inches) thick Birch wood to build enclosures for reasonably powered subwoofers. It was not received very well by most people (no surprises!); but he was adamant that the flexing of the enclosure walls was significant enough that it should be accounted for a little more aggressively than the standard 18mm (3/4 inch) MDF...100% not making it up!

I also am serious that I have read/seen somewhere guy(s) using Dynamat in the manner I described...though in thinking I’m agreed with BigAl; it would make more sense in a fibreglass enclosure. Not saying I would recommend it or that it definitely works or anything ‘relevant’ like that...just saying I did see it somewhere!

Cheers
2b0b07e4-3c43-4229-9412-ed7bca34e563
:beer:
 
I once saw a guy build a box out of 2 layers of baltic birch, with Green Glue in between as a decoupler. I don't remember if he saw a drastic improvement or not.
 
Yeah I'm going to be combing this forum for ideas on this install....it's for friend of mine...an opportunity to get decent/better at this. Maybe be able to attack some things in my personal build.

I also think I'm going to go with the 11 inch Stereo Integrity HSTs in my Avalon....sealed of course. So I believe I will be testing the birch theory with that enclosure. I know how the HSTs perform and I can only imagine what 2 of them would do to MDF lol.


Captain Buff said:
No such thing as a ‘build log that is just a laugh’ mate...always can be something that you do a certain way that gives another guy a ‘light bulb moment’
dd2c665d-5a34-4f35-86d1-45f4be25abb0
:thumbup:

Just FWIW regarding the stiffness (teehee) of subwoofer enclosure walls; there is a reputable installer in Oz that recommended (or at least he used to) using 50-55mm (~2 inches) thick Birch wood to build enclosures for reasonably powered subwoofers. It was not received very well by most people (no surprises!); but he was adamant that the flexing of the enclosure walls was significant enough that it should be accounted for a little more aggressively than the standard 18mm (3/4 inch) MDF...100% not making it up!

I also am serious that I have read/seen somewhere guy(s) using Dynamat in the manner I described...though in thinking I’m agreed with BigAl; it would make more sense in a fibreglass enclosure. Not saying I would recommend it or that it definitely works or anything ‘relevant’ like that...just saying I did see it somewhere!

Cheers
2b0b07e4-3c43-4229-9412-ed7bca34e563
:beer:
Click to expand...
 
BenevolentDictator said:
Yeah I'm going to be combing this forum for ideas on this install....it's for friend of mine...an opportunity to get decent/better at this. Maybe be able to attack some things in my personal build.

I also think I'm going to go with the 11 inch Stereo Integrity HSTs in my Avalon....sealed of course. So I believe I will be testing the birch theory with that enclosure. I know how the HSTs perform and I can only imagine what 2 of them would do to MDF lol.
Click to expand...
While I'm no fan of SMD, there is a great thread over there on cabinet materials:

https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/206653-an-experiment-in-box-materials/
 
BenevolentDictator said:
Green Glue....hmmm...I'll have to look into that.
Click to expand...

I think you can skip looking at Green Glue mate...

Firstly Green Glue is more for the building/construction type arena; not much use in car audio (that I know of anyway).

Secondly (just my two cents): it does do (to some extent) what it claims to do; I have no doubt. However it is not worth the money investment.

Not saying that I know everything; but I did research this stuff a fair bit (I also have a degree in Civil Engineering as much as that matters) because I was sound isolating a bedroom as a drum studio. Full 'room within a room' construction; cost around $6k in the end. That would have been more like $9k plus if I had used GG. Cost/benefit ratio was not even worthy of debate.

Hopefully them words don't start a shit fight because that is not my intention at all...just my opinion.

Grinder said:
While I'm no fan of SMD
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
I appreciate the input as always. I'm pretty much still in the planning/gathering materials stages of this thinking. I've made some pretty concrete decisions on some things and am just working on acquiring them but, as always, there are things that I'm struggling to make decisions on. I just want the install to be the best I can afford and am not trying to be so swept up in what I buy...just that I accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish.


Captain Buff said:
I think you can skip looking at Green Glue mate...

Firstly Green Glue is more for the building/construction type arena; not much use in car audio (that I know of anyway).

Secondly (just my two cents): it does do (to some extent) what it claims to do; I have no doubt. However it is not worth the money investment.

Not saying that I know everything; but I did research this stuff a fair bit (I also have a degree in Civil Engineering as much as that matters) because I was sound isolating a bedroom as a drum studio. Full 'room within a room' construction; cost around $6k in the end. That would have been more like $9k plus if I had used GG. Cost/benefit ratio was not even worthy of debate.

Hopefully them words don't start a shit fight because that is not my intention at all...just my opinion.



Agreed.
Click to expand...
 
2" thick seems like way overkill unless you're some kind of SPL competitor. Two layers of 3/4" (37mm) would be more than adequate in fact could be called overkill as well. Me personally I would only go as far as a double layer for the baffle wall, and then depend on a few internal stiffeners for the otherwalls, and any wall that's against a floor or other surface I would only worry about decoupling it (externally) from the surface, not making it 2" thick !

But then I"m not big on massive volumes and thumping the street. But I've seen Peter@PSSounds build a lot of boxes and never seen him go thicker than 3/4" (except the baffle). Of course he also milkshakes the entire inside of his boxes everytime as well. And claims he's done a lot of experimenting with his milkshake and compares it to concrete when cured.
 
Yeah Peter is other level with his builds. That Austrian/German engineering in action. Overbuilt like a mofo but I respect his builds. I have been looking up on internal bracing as well but I'm just trying to make sure the box can handle how I may want to push it from time to time. I am by no means a competitor by any metric nor have I ever wanted to be but I do listen to music that goes low (and is not rebassed or decaf) and also hits with authority on lower frequencies as well so I'm trying to appeal to all sides of my tastes as best as possible. I can go from Norah Jones to Big K.R.I.T. in one listening session. Balance is my goal.


preston said:
2" thick seems like way overkill unless you're some kind of SPL competitor. Two layers of 3/4" (37mm) would be more than adequate in fact could be called overkill as well. Me personally I would only go as far as a double layer for the baffle wall, and then depend on a few internal stiffeners for the otherwalls, and any wall that's against a floor or other surface I would only worry about decoupling it (externally) from the surface, not making it 2" thick !

But then I"m not big on massive volumes and thumping the street. But I've seen Peter@PSSounds build a lot of boxes and never seen him go thicker than 3/4" (except the baffle). Of course he also milkshakes the entire inside of his boxes everytime as well. And claims he's done a lot of experimenting with his milkshake and compares it to concrete when cured.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, the use of green glue is big in the Home Theater arena... people hang a second layer of drywall on their walls and use green glue between them to create a small air gap that reduces the transmission of resonance/sound to the rest of their house.
 
so.... you said enclosure.

Just to confirm, are you talking subwoofer enclosure? or for a smaller speaker?

I ask because I don't see how it will do squat for a subwoofer. smaller driver? Well, maybe...
 
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