2022 Toyota Prius. Doitor's g
- Thread starter doitor
- Start date
[FONT="]Took the MIN for its first test run.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Did a bunch of experiments to put the theory into practice after reading the Smaart manual, watching all the YouTube videos and taking the Basic Operator exam.
[/FONT]View attachment 18538
[FONT="]This is the setup I came up with.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The laptop is runing both Smaart and the MiniDsp pluging, but I sent Smaart via HDMI to a 55" tv and keept the MiniDsp plugin on the main screen.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Hooked a USB mic to the Mac just for fun.
[/FONT]View attachment 18539
[FONT="]This shows the 3 mic RTA (green is the left one, blue is the center one and pink is the right one).[/FONT]
[FONT="]The orange one averages all 3.
[/FONT]View attachment 18540
[FONT="]Did a lot of measurements of the tune I made with the MAX and of the system with and without Dirac both in the Spectrum and Trasfer Modes, but Ill post those after I organize them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Im waiting on the 8 channel soundcard and more mics to play, so hold on to yours seats, its about to get bumpy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]J.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Did a bunch of experiments to put the theory into practice after reading the Smaart manual, watching all the YouTube videos and taking the Basic Operator exam.
[/FONT]View attachment 18538
[FONT="]This is the setup I came up with.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The laptop is runing both Smaart and the MiniDsp pluging, but I sent Smaart via HDMI to a 55" tv and keept the MiniDsp plugin on the main screen.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Hooked a USB mic to the Mac just for fun.
[/FONT]View attachment 18539
[FONT="]This shows the 3 mic RTA (green is the left one, blue is the center one and pink is the right one).[/FONT]
[FONT="]The orange one averages all 3.
[/FONT]View attachment 18540
[FONT="]Did a lot of measurements of the tune I made with the MAX and of the system with and without Dirac both in the Spectrum and Trasfer Modes, but Ill post those after I organize them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Im waiting on the 8 channel soundcard and more mics to play, so hold on to yours seats, its about to get bumpy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]J.[/FONT]
Killin it dudeSold the 4 channel usb interfase and upgraded to the 8 channel one with some extra mics.
Besides more inputs I also get SPIF in/out.
View attachment 18541
J.
Besides more inputs I also get SPIF in/out.
View attachment 18541
J.
Version #78468 of the mic holder.
This one happened after reading an article (need to stop doing that. LOL).
The article mentions that to get the best measurement for 1/3 octave resolution, you can place 6 mics, 15 cm appart each at a 30 degree angle.
The 7th mic (in the center) is going to be used for impulse response only and turned off for the rest.
Waiting on two more XLR mics to play with it.
Right now I have 5 XLR and 2 USB.
Will also compare this setup to the other versions.
Hope the madness stops soon. LOL.
View attachment 18542
J.
This one happened after reading an article (need to stop doing that. LOL).
The article mentions that to get the best measurement for 1/3 octave resolution, you can place 6 mics, 15 cm appart each at a 30 degree angle.
The 7th mic (in the center) is going to be used for impulse response only and turned off for the rest.
Waiting on two more XLR mics to play with it.
Right now I have 5 XLR and 2 USB.
Will also compare this setup to the other versions.
Hope the madness stops soon. LOL.
View attachment 18542
J.
About to get into the FIR filter rabbit hole.
Hold my beer.
View attachment 18632
View attachment 18633
View attachment 18634
J.
Hold my beer.
View attachment 18632
View attachment 18633
View attachment 18634
J.
What a weekend.
Marks class is a must to anyone interested in Car Audio SQ.
Its not a regular school class with powerpoint presentations. Its more of a free flowing talk filled with experiments that show you the concepts in action. By example, he has a simulated car (dash, windshield, etc) in which you have a 3 way front stage that you can move and has a Tun/MAX system going, so you can see in real time the effects of speaker aiming and what it does to the frequency response, then they tune it in real time and you get to listen after.
Also had a chance to take a listen to his NASCAR with my tracks, which was a pretty eye opening experience.
He has four reference systems that you can play with in between classes that you can play with and change between them with a remote control.
One of the highlights was watching Jeffrey Hald (MTI, probably the most experienced MAX user in the world) and Matt Mergenthal (JL Audio) tune a bunch of cars in real time while explaining what they where doing and why.
All in all it was a awesome experience.
View attachment 18681View attachment 18680View attachment 18679View attachment 18678View attachment 18683
Marks class is a must to anyone interested in Car Audio SQ.
Its not a regular school class with powerpoint presentations. Its more of a free flowing talk filled with experiments that show you the concepts in action. By example, he has a simulated car (dash, windshield, etc) in which you have a 3 way front stage that you can move and has a Tun/MAX system going, so you can see in real time the effects of speaker aiming and what it does to the frequency response, then they tune it in real time and you get to listen after.
Also had a chance to take a listen to his NASCAR with my tracks, which was a pretty eye opening experience.
He has four reference systems that you can play with in between classes that you can play with and change between them with a remote control.
One of the highlights was watching Jeffrey Hald (MTI, probably the most experienced MAX user in the world) and Matt Mergenthal (JL Audio) tune a bunch of cars in real time while explaining what they where doing and why.
All in all it was a awesome experience.
View attachment 18681View attachment 18680View attachment 18679View attachment 18678View attachment 18683
Last edited:
nadams5755
New member
i grabbed a ddrc-22d a couple years ago to put between the radio (toslink spdif) and dsp (toslink spdif). there was no aha moment with dirac-live. i liked some of the tonality changes the dsp added to my tune, so i made those changes in my main dsp instead.
i didn't do any of the manual fir filters though.
i cracked open the ddrc-22d and saw the board takes 5-24vdc, so i had no problem finding a barrel connector for 12v to power the thing. i just laid it in my back seat
View attachment 18682
it's now in the hands of another local junkie for one of their projects.
I like Dirac. It gives you in 20 minutes what it would take an expert tuner a lot more time and effort and results a regular or newbie tuner would never get.
Theres still room for improvement after Dirac.
As far as manual FIR, I havent installed the DRC yet, but from what I heard it should be pretty badass.
Im going to to some changes to the install first and then play with the tune.
Will post my findings as always.
J.
Theres still room for improvement after Dirac.
As far as manual FIR, I havent installed the DRC yet, but from what I heard it should be pretty badass.
Im going to to some changes to the install first and then play with the tune.
Will post my findings as always.
J.
[FONT="]Ive been using headphones as reference for tonality (Audio Technica M50X and Kiwi Cadenza IEM´s), but after the seminar I decided to get a better system which will also help me practice tuning and learn.[/FONT]
[FONT="]So I just ordered some Kali Audio MM-6´s that should be here this weekend. They are the same speakers as the LP'6v2, but they also have digital inputs.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Will report back once I set them up and take them for a spin.
J.[/FONT]
[FONT="]So I just ordered some Kali Audio MM-6´s that should be here this weekend. They are the same speakers as the LP'6v2, but they also have digital inputs.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Will report back once I set them up and take them for a spin.
J.[/FONT]
So, I couldnt pass up the anniversary sale and got a perpetual license for Smaart LE v9 yesterday.
Made two configurations.
A) 7 mic array in Geddes/Sound Power/Budiono configuration and B) 5-7 mic array all in the same plane like JL MAX does it.
Also will compare the arrays vs a single moving mic on REW.
I have some vacation time coming so expect several experiments that Ill be posting soon.
Will also be picking up my Kali Audio speakers this weekend. Woot, woot.
View attachment 18686
J.
Made two configurations.
A) 7 mic array in Geddes/Sound Power/Budiono configuration and B) 5-7 mic array all in the same plane like JL MAX does it.
Also will compare the arrays vs a single moving mic on REW.
I have some vacation time coming so expect several experiments that Ill be posting soon.
Will also be picking up my Kali Audio speakers this weekend. Woot, woot.
View attachment 18686
J.
[FONT="]Picked up the speakers last night.[/FONT]
[FONT="]MSRP on them is $209 each, but found them on eBay from AltoMusic in New York for $149 each with free shipping. So $324 after taxes.
[/FONT][FONT="]Each one came with the power cord, a remote control and an XLR cable.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]View attachment 18688
[FONT="]Said I wouldn't play with them until the next morning, but who was I kidding. LOL.
[/FONT]View attachment 18689
View attachment 18690
[FONT="]So they have four types of inputs: two digital inputs (Coaxial and Toslink), RCA and XLR.[/FONT]
[FONT="]With the 8 dip switches you can set the DSP up for different configurations and you also select which one is the primary and secondary speaker.
[/FONT]View attachment 18691
[FONT="]The initial impression is that we are on the wrong hobby. LOL.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Just set them up in a equilateral triangle and BAM its almost magic. You get the imaging, tonality, coherence and depth that you could only dream of in a car.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Im going to measure them up later today and load some graphics.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Also plan to hook the MiniDSP OpenDRC to them to experiment before I put it in the car.[/FONT]
[FONT="]J.[/FONT]
[FONT="]MSRP on them is $209 each, but found them on eBay from AltoMusic in New York for $149 each with free shipping. So $324 after taxes.
[/FONT][FONT="]Each one came with the power cord, a remote control and an XLR cable.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]View attachment 18688
[FONT="]Said I wouldn't play with them until the next morning, but who was I kidding. LOL.
[/FONT]View attachment 18689
View attachment 18690
[FONT="]So they have four types of inputs: two digital inputs (Coaxial and Toslink), RCA and XLR.[/FONT]
[FONT="]With the 8 dip switches you can set the DSP up for different configurations and you also select which one is the primary and secondary speaker.
[/FONT]View attachment 18691
[FONT="]The initial impression is that we are on the wrong hobby. LOL.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Just set them up in a equilateral triangle and BAM its almost magic. You get the imaging, tonality, coherence and depth that you could only dream of in a car.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Im going to measure them up later today and load some graphics.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Also plan to hook the MiniDSP OpenDRC to them to experiment before I put it in the car.[/FONT]
[FONT="]J.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Quick post for the initial setup, will post a more detailed and separate thread after I finish all the tests.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Setup used consist of a Topping D10S, MiniDSP Open DRC and for measuring 7 mics with the Behringer 8 channel sound card, a MiniDSP Umik-1 CSL.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Want to compare the results with different measurement methods: single mic in the listening position, moving mic, different arrays, etc. Will also do the same measurements with Smaart v9, Open Sound Meter and REW.[/FONT]
[FONT="]This was just the setup test and will measure officially starting tomorrow. Might start another thread.
[/FONT]View attachment 18692 View attachment 18693 View attachment 18694 View attachment 18695
[FONT="]Setup used consist of a Topping D10S, MiniDSP Open DRC and for measuring 7 mics with the Behringer 8 channel sound card, a MiniDSP Umik-1 CSL.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Want to compare the results with different measurement methods: single mic in the listening position, moving mic, different arrays, etc. Will also do the same measurements with Smaart v9, Open Sound Meter and REW.[/FONT]
[FONT="]This was just the setup test and will measure officially starting tomorrow. Might start another thread.
[/FONT]View attachment 18692 View attachment 18693 View attachment 18694 View attachment 18695
[FONT="]First measurements with Smaart LE v9 in the car.[/FONT]
[FONT="]This is version 98763764328 of the Sound Power mic array holder.
[/FONT]View attachment 18705View attachment 18706
[FONT="]If you've listened to the car, this is what's going on.
[/FONT]View attachment 18707
[FONT="]Next step is to work on that tune with rePhase and install the MiniDSP OpenDRC in the car.[/FONT]
[FONT="]J.[/FONT]
[FONT="]This is version 98763764328 of the Sound Power mic array holder.
[/FONT]View attachment 18705View attachment 18706
[FONT="]If you've listened to the car, this is what's going on.
[/FONT]View attachment 18707
[FONT="]Next step is to work on that tune with rePhase and install the MiniDSP OpenDRC in the car.[/FONT]
[FONT="]J.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Been tuning the car over the weekend using JL Audio's recommended Tunning method.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Im still not done, but here's a sneak peek.
[/FONT]View attachment 18708
[FONT="]m liking the tonality of my manual tune a whole lot better than Dirac's.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Still have to do the last two steps of JL's Tunning method.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Im making a PDF documenting this step by step that should be ready to share soon.[/FONT]
[FONT="]And once its done, ill throw FIR filters on top. Woot, woot.[/FONT]
[FONT="]J.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Im still not done, but here's a sneak peek.
[/FONT]View attachment 18708
[FONT="]m liking the tonality of my manual tune a whole lot better than Dirac's.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Still have to do the last two steps of JL's Tunning method.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Im making a PDF documenting this step by step that should be ready to share soon.[/FONT]
[FONT="]And once its done, ill throw FIR filters on top. Woot, woot.[/FONT]
[FONT="]J.[/FONT]
Small update.
Moved the DRC from the center console into the sunglass holder.
View attachment 18712
Got the MiniDSP Open DRC up and running.
Its under the passenger seat.
Still need to make the rack to hold it in place.
View attachment 18713
Terminated the coaxial cable that goes between the Topping and the OpenDRC.
View attachment 18714
J.
Moved the DRC from the center console into the sunglass holder.
View attachment 18712
Got the MiniDSP Open DRC up and running.
Its under the passenger seat.
Still need to make the rack to hold it in place.
View attachment 18713
Terminated the coaxial cable that goes between the Topping and the OpenDRC.
View attachment 18714
J.
Now that I’ve been playing with Smaart a bit more, decided to measure the effects of what the "horn" I made for the mids in the dash, was causing to the sound.
The idea behind the "horn" was to try and eliminate most of the direct sound from the speaker to try and get only reflected sound which I thought would be easier to eq, but guess what....... It doesn’t work like that. LOL.
This is the frequency response of both mids with x overs (320-3000 at LR 24 dB).
View attachment 18715
See the nasty dip on both mids from around 1.6 kHz up to around 3.2 kHz and the bump in phase.
Well, if we take into account the 1/4 wavelength of those frequencies its pretty clear what’s happening.
A full wavelength at 1.6 kHz measures 22 cm, and a 1/4 of that is 5.5 cm.
A full wavelength of 3.2 kHz measures 11 cm and a 1/4 of that is 2.75 cm.
Now why the 1/4 wavelenght is important?
Because when that wave bounces it comes back at 1/2 de original wave, which means 90 degrees out of phase which cancels those frequencies.
In my case, I’m loosing around 6-7db´s in that range.
Solution: I’m going to take the "horns" out and get the speakers closer to the windshield, which won’t eliminate the cancelations, but should push it up into frequencies not played by those speakers.
The idea is to do that over the weekend and will report back with new measurements when it’s done.
J.
The idea behind the "horn" was to try and eliminate most of the direct sound from the speaker to try and get only reflected sound which I thought would be easier to eq, but guess what....... It doesn’t work like that. LOL.
This is the frequency response of both mids with x overs (320-3000 at LR 24 dB).
View attachment 18715
See the nasty dip on both mids from around 1.6 kHz up to around 3.2 kHz and the bump in phase.
Well, if we take into account the 1/4 wavelength of those frequencies its pretty clear what’s happening.
A full wavelength at 1.6 kHz measures 22 cm, and a 1/4 of that is 5.5 cm.
A full wavelength of 3.2 kHz measures 11 cm and a 1/4 of that is 2.75 cm.
Now why the 1/4 wavelenght is important?
Because when that wave bounces it comes back at 1/2 de original wave, which means 90 degrees out of phase which cancels those frequencies.
In my case, I’m loosing around 6-7db´s in that range.
Solution: I’m going to take the "horns" out and get the speakers closer to the windshield, which won’t eliminate the cancelations, but should push it up into frequencies not played by those speakers.
The idea is to do that over the weekend and will report back with new measurements when it’s done.
J.
View attachment 18716
From top to bottom:
Blue: With waveguide mounted under OEM location.
Green: Without waveguide mounted under OEM location.
Yellow: OEM location about 1/2" higher than the previous two. (tilted a little).
Orange: OEM location title at the rear view mirror.
Blue: OEM location tilted a lot.
Red: Touching the glass tilted.
Purple: Touching the glass.
Conclusions.
1. Mounting the speaker farther from the glass accentuates the lower range of frequencies played by this speaker, from 3 to 7db's from about 180 Hz up to 1.2 kHz.
2. The cancelation is there no matter what I do, but it is magnified by the waveguide, not because it makes the cancelation bigger, but because it boost the lower section.
3. The flatest response out of all is with the speaker touching the glass, but that's hard to keep stealth (like I want).
4. Im going to mount the speaker in the OEM location with a slight tilt which seems to be the best compromise in my car.
From top to bottom:
Blue: With waveguide mounted under OEM location.
Green: Without waveguide mounted under OEM location.
Yellow: OEM location about 1/2" higher than the previous two. (tilted a little).
Orange: OEM location title at the rear view mirror.
Blue: OEM location tilted a lot.
Red: Touching the glass tilted.
Purple: Touching the glass.
Conclusions.
1. Mounting the speaker farther from the glass accentuates the lower range of frequencies played by this speaker, from 3 to 7db's from about 180 Hz up to 1.2 kHz.
2. The cancelation is there no matter what I do, but it is magnified by the waveguide, not because it makes the cancelation bigger, but because it boost the lower section.
3. The flatest response out of all is with the speaker touching the glass, but that's hard to keep stealth (like I want).
4. Im going to mount the speaker in the OEM location with a slight tilt which seems to be the best compromise in my car.